RV

[Middle Aged Man]

Anyone here have an rv or travel trailer? My boys and I are renovating a 2004 Fleetwood Pioneer 27tb. It's a bunkhouse travel trailer that sleeps 9. We only have 2 weeks left until we are ready to put it in use. In reading and learning about travel trailers and 5th wheels, I learned that on average most are built to last about 45 or so weekend trips before they start to have major issues. This is apparently true for even new ones built today that are not super high end ( $100k+ in just trailers and 5th wheels, not drivable rvs).

By the time we are done next week, I will be about $7k all in for purchase and repairs. Not a bad deal if you can do the work yourself, or make your kids do it.

[Pokej]

MikeLucky is our resident expert

[SoonerAviator]

Tough to make a trailer last a long time when they are built to be a lightweight as possible while simultaneously trying to have the thinnest walls/structure to amplify interior space. They often take lots of shortcuts with wiring and plumbing which fail to protect/support it over the long term. Missing grommets and long runs of hoses/cables start showing failures after 5 or 6 years of being bounced down the road. They suffer from poor sealing of the roofs and slides as well, not to mention the natural settling of the framing (just like a house) which doesn't help already wide build tolerances. Poor insulation, especially underneath with water tanks and black water systems, causes headaches in cold weather as well.

Motorhomes are much of the same problem, where it's rare (until you get into the million-dollar Class As) that a motorhome was designed from the ground-up to have it's systems optimized and laid out for longevity and serviceability. Most of the cheaper motorhomes are just chassis bought from whatever manufacturer and then they bolt their structure on top of it. Run heater core lines 40' all the way from the rear pusher-diesel engine and then wonder why the defroster has trouble keeping up in cold weather . . . but it is what it is. The other part that gets travel trailers and motorhomes alike, is owner maintenance is generally pretty poor. Fixing and maintaining a complex home on wheels generally falls to the bottom of the priority list until something catastrophically fails. Using cheapest trailer tires, not fixing retractable awnings, or replacing failing inverters/battery banks is pretty common.

[Slytherin]

Anyone here have an rv or travel trailer? My boys and I are renovating a 2004 Fleetwood Pioneer 27tb. It's a bunkhouse travel trailer that sleeps 9. We only have 2 weeks left until we are ready to put it in use. In reading and learning about travel trailers and 5th wheels, I learned that on average most are built to last about 45 or so weekend trips before they start to have major issues. This is apparently true for even new ones built today that are not super high end ( $100k+ in just trailers and 5th wheels, not drivable rvs).

By the time we are done next week, I will be about $7k all in for purchase and repairs. Not a bad deal if you can do the work yourself, or make your kids do it.

$7K? That's $5K short of paying the excise tax on my motorhome. It is a bunkhouse though and can sleep 10. If you've got little ones, it's the way to go. I've owned a lot of RVs. I've had cab over campers, bumper pull campers, and a couple 5th wheels, one being a toy box.

Only two companies build most RV components, no matter how high end they are. Things like toilets, water heaters, A/C, heaters, sinks, plumbing and the like. And it's all junk. On your project, my worries would be things like wheel bearings, tires, electrical and plumbing issues.

As mentioned Mike Lucky is the resident expert on small bumper pull RVs. Me? I'm at a point in life where I ain't fixing shit. Good luck on your project.

[RockFlagandEagle]

We all knew what was coming.

[keef]

Now someone start a thread about pools...

[Middle Aged Man]

$7K? That's $5K short of paying the excise tax on my motorhome. It is a bunkhouse though and can sleep 10. If you've got little ones, it's the way to go. I've owned a lot of RVs. I've had cab over campers, bumper pull campers, and a couple 5th wheels, one being a toy box.

Only two companies build most RV components, no matter how high end they are. Things like toilets, water heaters, A/C, heaters, sinks, plumbing and the like. And it's all junk. On your project, my worries would be things like wheel bearings, tires, electrical and plumbing issues.

As mentioned Mike Lucky is the resident expert on small bumper pull RVs. Me? I'm at a point in life where I ain't fixing shit. Good luck on your project.

We looked at those and a lot of other things and decided that we would not use it enough to come anywhere near getting the value out of it. We will do a couple of weekends a year at the lake and then let kids/grandkids use it for sleepovers from time to time.

All of the things that you and SoonerAviator mentioned are what we are repairing/replacing. We have a few places of floor rot that we have replaced that turned up when we pulled the old vinyl up to replace it. Besides being something that we will use occasionally, it's a great project for my boys and I. That's the real benefit.

[RockFlagandEagle]

Now someone start a thread about pools...

Nobody wants to hear about your community pee-pee pool.

[MikeLucky]

MikeLucky is our resident expert

I'm not sure I'm the expert, but I did a lot of research when buying ours.

2021 Flagstaff E-Pro E19FDS

Murphy bed, couch, dinette, and small slideout for kitchen.





I've heard about the longevity that might or might not be built in. We've only had ours for 11 months but so far it's been a damn tank, which is surprising given we bought what are being called "covid campers." Between shutdowns, staffing issues, and supply issues, campers bought since covid have trended towards shitboxes. It's definitely true of the lower budget economy lines. With ours being a 4 season camper the materials used to build it are higher by definition so I think that has helped with the quality of it. But, like I said it's only been 11 months so we'll see how it holds up.

Since we've had it we've taken it to lakes here in Oklahoma about 5 or 6 weekends, NOLA for Mardi Gras, Colorado Springs, Branson, and just completed a 4000 mile, 2 week trip through Augusta Georgia, Dayton Ohio, and DC. About to head to Fort Collins and Colorado Springs on Saturday for a full week as well. We even lived in it for about 2 weeks in between a move. So, we haven't been bashful with it. It's the only way to travel for us now. Wife and I both work remote and now that we have good mobile internet we can literally work from just about anywhere so it's been amazing to be able to travel and still work without any gaps or even having to take any leave or vacation of any sort. And, if you want to travel with pets, it's unparalleled.

[Stinger_1066]

Tough to make a trailer last a long time when they are built to be a lightweight as possible while simultaneously trying to have the thinnest walls/structure to amplify interior space. They often take lots of shortcuts with wiring and plumbing which fail to protect/support it over the long term. Missing grommets and long runs of hoses/cables start showing failures after 5 or 6 years of being bounced down the road. They suffer from poor sealing of the roofs and slides as well, not to mention the natural settling of the framing (just like a house) which doesn't help already wide build tolerances. Poor insulation, especially underneath with water tanks and black water systems, causes headaches in cold weather as well.

Motorhomes are much of the same problem, where it's rare (until you get into the million-dollar Class As) that a motorhome was designed from the ground-up to have it's systems optimized and laid out for longevity and serviceability. Most of the cheaper motorhomes are just chassis bought from whatever manufacturer and then they bolt their structure on top of it. Run heater core lines 40' all the way from the rear pusher-diesel engine and then wonder why the defroster has trouble keeping up in cold weather . . . but it is what it is. The other part that gets travel trailers and motorhomes alike, is owner maintenance is generally pretty poor. Fixing and maintaining a complex home on wheels generally falls to the bottom of the priority list until something catastrophically fails. Using cheapest trailer tires, not fixing retractable awnings, or replacing failing inverters/battery banks is pretty common.

From an engineering standpoint it doesn't make sense to build something that is less sturdy than a tank and expect it to hold up long when being towed numerous times over bumpy terrain.

I'm frankly surprised some of those things hold together for more than one trip.

[SoonerAviator]

From an engineering standpoint it doesn't make sense to build something that is less sturdy than a tank and expect it to hold up long when being towed numerous times over bumpy terrain.

I'm frankly surprised some of those things hold together for more than one trip.

Well, number one driver is cost, and more mass in materials generally means higher cost to produce. Secondary driver is related to GVWR limitations in the class of trailer being built. Having a bumper-pull trailer that weighs 7K lbs dry opens up a larger market of potential buyers than one that weighs 9K lbs. I'm sure there is a lot of industry knowledge about where the dividing lines are regarding common SUV/truck towing capacities which dictate how much they can afford to design into the trailers. The 5th-wheel campers are likely a bit less restricted in many cases since they will generally be pulled by HD trucks with much higher trailer weight capacities and pin weights. I've seen some bumper-pull rigs that are 35'+ long/8Klbs dry and I can't imagine what shortcuts in material structure they had to do in order to keep the weight down that low on such a massive rig. The trailer manufacturers probably don't care much anyway, as the warranties generally aren't very long and they have no liability in what happens after that. They also know most people only use it heavily for the first year or two, then sit around for longer periods until they get scrapped 10-15 years down the road. It probably takes a decade or more for many travel trailers to see 40 total trips.

This is a fun solution for SUVs with a 5th wheel hitch problem:

[Middle Aged Man]

Well, number one driver is cost, and more mass in materials generally means higher cost to produce. Secondary driver is related to GVWR limitations in the class of trailer being built. Having a bumper-pull trailer that weighs 7K lbs dry opens up a larger market of potential buyers than one that weighs 9K lbs. I'm sure there is a lot of industry knowledge about where the dividing lines are regarding common SUV/truck towing capacities which dictate how much they can afford to design into the trailers. The 5th-wheel campers are likely a bit less restricted in many cases since they will generally be pulled by HD trucks with much higher trailer weight capacities and pin weights. I've seen some bumper-pull rigs that are 35'+ long/8Klbs dry and I can't imagine what shortcuts in material structure they had to do in order to keep the weight down that low on such a massive rig. The trailer manufacturers probably don't care much anyway, as the warranties generally aren't very long and they have no liability in what happens after that. They also know most people only use it heavily for the first year or two, then sit around for longer periods until they get scrapped 10-15 years down the road. It probably takes a decade or more for many travel trailers to see 40 total trips.

This is a fun solution for SUVs with a 5th wheel hitch problem:

Years ago, before I knew anything about towing, I wondered if you could make a trailer out of an old dually pickup bed and then attach a 5th wheel to the trailer. Someone else obviously was thinking about how to come up with something like that as well.

[Slytherin]

We all knew what was coming.

Don’t be poor?

[Slytherin]

Now someone start a thread about pools...

Don’t be aggy poor?

[SoonerAviator]

Years ago, before I knew anything about towing, I wondered if you could make a trailer out of an old dually pickup bed and then attach a 5th wheel to the trailer. Someone else obviously was thinking about how to come up with something like that as well.

Pretty expensive contraption, but it's actually connected to the SUV in 3 places, so it isn't like pulling doubles (which makes backing up much easier). It has it's own suspension and braking system as well. I'm sure there are people who have a bigger family and can't fit everyone comfortably in a crew cab long bed truck that this appeals to or those who keep a cap on the truck bed, but I think they're around $10K so it's not exactly cheap either. I bet it makes towing a breeze though since the tongue weight should be minimal.

[Lazers pew pew pew]

Just gimme that Excursion and I'll be fine

[UCO4Sooners]

Well, number one driver is cost, and more mass in materials generally means higher cost to produce. Secondary driver is related to GVWR limitations in the class of trailer being built. Having a bumper-pull trailer that weighs 7K lbs dry opens up a larger market of potential buyers than one that weighs 9K lbs. I'm sure there is a lot of industry knowledge about where the dividing lines are regarding common SUV/truck towing capacities which dictate how much they can afford to design into the trailers. The 5th-wheel campers are likely a bit less restricted in many cases since they will generally be pulled by HD trucks with much higher trailer weight capacities and pin weights. I've seen some bumper-pull rigs that are 35'+ long/8Klbs dry and I can't imagine what shortcuts in material structure they had to do in order to keep the weight down that low on such a massive rig. The trailer manufacturers probably don't care much anyway, as the warranties generally aren't very long and they have no liability in what happens after that. They also know most people only use it heavily for the first year or two, then sit around for longer periods until they get scrapped 10-15 years down the road. It probably takes a decade or more for many travel trailers to see 40 total trips.

This is a fun solution for SUVs with a 5th wheel hitch problem:

This isn't anything new. Just adapted from semi trucking. We used similar single axle and dual axle fifth wheel converter dollies back in the late 70s in the oil field and the equipment was old back then. They had pintle hitches on them. I think there is a firm by the name of Benlee out of Michigan that manufactures these things.

[Slytherin]

Pretty expensive contraption, but it's actually connected to the SUV in 3 places, so it isn't like pulling doubles (which makes backing up much easier). It has it's own suspension and braking system as well. I'm sure there are people who have a bigger family and can't fit everyone comfortably in a crew cab long bed truck that this appeals to or those who keep a cap on the truck bed, but I think they're around $10K so it's not exactly cheap either. I bet it makes towing a breeze though since the tongue weight should be minimal.

You know what really sucks? I have a tow dolly I pull my wife's car on and tow behind the fifth wheel. You've got the tow dolly wheels and the rear wheels of the vehicle on the ground. Impossible to back up. You literally can't go 3 feet without jackknifing. I'm the best trailer driver I know, and can back an elephant into a mouse's pussy, but I can't back that rig more than one sidewalk square. Once I unload her car, I can back the dolly wherever, and it's light enough to move around by hand. Very helpless/weird feeling when you've spent your life backing trailers of all sizes and shapes into all manner of places.

[SoonerAviator]

You know what really sucks? I have a tow dolly I pull my wife's car on and tow behind the fifth wheel. You've got the tow dolly wheels and the rear wheels of the vehicle on the ground. Impossible to back up. You literally can't go 3 feet without jackknifing. I'm the best trailer driver I know, and can back an elephant into a mouse's pussy, but I can't back that rig more than one sidewalk square. Once I unload her car, I can back the dolly wherever, and it's light enough to move around by hand. Very helpless/weird feeling when you've spent your life backing trailers of all sizes and shapes into all manner of places.

Jet ski trailers can be the same problem. Can't see that it's getting out of line with the side view mirrors (or rear view mirror if the tailgate is up) until it's almost too late to save it, lol. It's just easier to get out and lift it sometimes.

[TheBoots]

[MikeLucky]

You know what really sucks? I have a tow dolly I pull my wife's car on and tow behind the fifth wheel. You've got the tow dolly wheels and the rear wheels of the vehicle on the ground. Impossible to back up. You literally can't go 3 feet without jackknifing. I'm the best trailer driver I know, and can back an elephant into a mouse's pussy, but I can't back that rig more than one sidewalk square. Once I unload her car, I can back the dolly wherever, and it's light enough to move around by hand. Very helpless/weird feeling when you've spent your life backing trailers of all sizes and shapes into all manner of places.

Our last camper was the little teardrop and it was damn near impossible to back up. I would unhook it and just roll it into the spot. It was so frustrating that I couldn't back it up and couldn't figure out why I was having such a difficult time, then when I got the new camper it was easy to back into spaces so I realized that the tiny camper was just a mess to back up.

[Middle Aged Man]

Our last camper was the little teardrop and it was damn near impossible to back up. I would unhook it and just roll it into the spot. It was so frustrating that I couldn't back it up and couldn't figure out why I was having such a difficult time, then when I got the new camper it was easy to back into spaces so I realized that the tiny camper was just a mess to back up.

I'm not an expert at all, but I wonder if it has something to do with the distance between the hitch and the trailer wheels. I have seen some boat trailers with really long tongues on them (fold away, I think) that seem to be easier to back. I haven't actually done it, so it could all be the skill of the driver too.

[UCO4Sooners]

The shorter the trailer the harder it is to back. Those 53' semi trailers are a breeze compared to a teardrop or jet ski.

[StroudSooner]

With the internet providing endless “how to” videos and access to parts, you can keep your RV in top shape if you are willing and able. Especially if you carport it when not in use.

IMHO

[hogarita]

Something a little bit different from your typical "RV". A little light on the amenities but it can go a lot of places that regular RV's can't, which is the point. Picture is from the inaugural trip this past weekend. Heading out next week for 10 days.

[Socalisooner]

Jayco Alante 31’…bought about 3 years ago…

[SoonerMagick]

You know what really sucks? I have a tow dolly I pull my wife's car on and tow behind the fifth wheel. You've got the tow dolly wheels and the rear wheels of the vehicle on the ground. Impossible to back up. You literally can't go 3 feet without jackknifing. I'm the best trailer driver I know, and can back an elephant into a mouse's pussy, but I can't back that rig more than one sidewalk square. Once I unload her car, I can back the dolly wherever, and it's light enough to move around by hand. Very helpless/weird feeling when you've spent your life backing trailers of all sizes and shapes into all manner of places.

It's HUGE! You've spent your entire anti-jackknife life backing boats into the water with four wheels! This'll probably always be a bitch. Well wishes, though. I still zip up my tent manually, and tie all food-smelling things thirty feet into a tree two hundred yards from my tent. It could be worse. Talk about 1st world problems...

[Pokej]

You know what really sucks? I have a tow dolly I pull my wife's car on and tow behind the fifth wheel. You've got the tow dolly wheels and the rear wheels of the vehicle on the ground. Impossible to back up. You literally can't go 3 feet without jackknifing. I'm the best trailer driver I know, and can back an elephant into a mouse's pussy, but I can't back that rig more than one sidewalk square. Once I unload her car, I can back the dolly wherever, and it's light enough to move around by hand. Very helpless/weird feeling when you've spent your life backing trailers of all sizes and shapes into all manner of places.

Just let your wife back it in you big old wussy.

[Slytherin]

Just let your wife back it in you big old wussy.

I back it in your wife all the time.

[Slytherin]

The shorter the trailer the harder it is to back. Those 53' semi trailers are a breeze compared to a teardrop or jet ski.

Sorta true. Short trailers turn very quickly. You better be correcting the second it starts to turn or you’ll be jacked. Semi trailers turn much slower and are easier to predict. However, if you have to back offset, or parallel, or a full 90 degrees? Not so easy.

[Middle Aged Man]

It's HUGE! You've spent your entire anti-jackknife life backing boats into the water with four wheels! This'll probably always be a bitch. Well wishes, though. I still zip up my tent manually, and tie all food-smelling things thirty feet into a tree two hundred yards from my tent. It could be worse. Talk about 1st world problems...

I watched a bear rip into a tent and backpack one time like a laser through butter. Scared me crapless. I had to sleep in a tent another week after that and was picturing my death with every leaf I heard blowing in the wind. We had our food and smellables up high and away between trees like you describe and all I could think about was what if my toothpaste accidentally dripped on me and I didn't know it. A bear was coming for me, because he liked mint and I smelled of it. I just knew it.

[SoonerMagick]

I watched a bear rip into a tent and backpack one time like a laser through butter. Scared me crapless. I had to sleep in a tent another week after that and was picturing my death with every leaf I heard blowing in the wind. We had our food and smellables up high and away between trees like you describe and all I could think about was what if my toothpaste accidentally dripped on me and I didn't know it. A bear was coming for me, because he liked mint and I smelled of it. I just knew it.

We only have black bears here, so we only carry bear spray for them and the mountain lions. It's the brown bears that are terrifying. I've never owned a gun, but would insist on a .44 if I were to be out in the brown bear backcountry up north.

[Pokej]

I watched a bear rip into a tent and backpack one time like a laser through butter. Scared me crapless. I had to sleep in a tent another week after that and was picturing my death with every leaf I heard blowing in the wind. We had our food and smellables up high and away between trees like you describe and all I could think about was what if my toothpaste accidentally dripped on me and I didn't know it. A bear was coming for me, because he liked mint and I smelled of it. I just knew it.

You can’t use the RVs with any canvas in Yellowstone

[Middle Aged Man]

You can’t use the RVs with any canvas in Yellowstone

Does that mean no pop-up trailers? I remember going there in the summer of 85 and the staff telling us about someone being killed by a bear in either a tent or a pop-up trailer a couple of weeks earlier. We were in a pop-up rental trailer and I slept on the floor, hoping that if a bear came in it would get my brother first. My brother was all tough talking about how he would just "beat its a$$ until it ran away". I said fine, just keep it away from me.

[Lazers pew pew pew]

Something a little bit different from your typical "RV". A little light on the amenities but it can go a lot of places that regular RV's can't, which is the point. Picture is from the inaugural trip this past weekend. Heading out next week for 10 days.

I want one

[hogarita]

I want one

Here you go!

https://offgridtrailers.com/


Looks like they have some trailers in inventory which was not the case when I ordered mine.

Or you can get one built exactly like you want, but there will be a wait time for that. I ordered mine in April of last year and didn't get it until November.

[SoonerGrad78]

37 foot gas motor home. Camping at Tulsa fairgrounds right now and what a storm that blew through this morning. We’re doing a shakedown this weekend before heading out for a 38 day trip later this month. We will be stay here for part of the PGA championship before heading to Michigan.

[Slytherin]

37 foot gas motor home. Camping at Tulsa fairgrounds right now and what a storm that blew through this morning. We’re doing a shakedown this weekend before heading out for a 38 day trip later this month. We will be stay here for part of the PGA championship before heading to Michigan.

Do you have the Ford V-10? Good RV gas motor, but galdamn they suck some fuel. My son's has the big block Chevy motor and it burns fuel sitting still. My 41' with the Cummins diesel averages about 8-9, and it's always loaded to the hilt, and I set the cruise at 75.

[Middle Aged Man]

Do you have the Ford V-10? Good RV gas motor, but galdamn they suck some fuel. My son's has the big block Chevy motor and it burns fuel sitting still. My 41' with the Cummins diesel averages about 8-9, and it's always loaded to the hilt, and I set the cruise at 75.

A decade ago I bought a used city bus at auction with the v10. We were lucky to l get 7 in it and couldn't get it to go over 55. I think it may have had a governor on it.

[SoonerAviator]

Do you have the Ford V-10? Good RV gas motor, but galdamn they suck some fuel. My son's has the big block Chevy motor and it burns fuel sitting still. My 41' with the Cummins diesel averages about 8-9, and it's always loaded to the hilt, and I set the cruise at 75.

That Triton V10 was used in a ton of RV applications and did pretty well (gas mileage aside). Pretty darn reliable engines, aside from occasionally spitting out a spark plug or two. Most run well past 300K miles. Single digit mpgs for sure.

[Middle Aged Man]

That Triton V10 was used in a ton of RV applications and did pretty well (gas mileage aside). Pretty darn reliable engines, aside from occasionally spitting out a spark plug or two. Most run well past 300K miles. Single digit mpgs for sure.

Fuelly.com is a site that is crowdsourced mpg data. From what I can tell, you have to look at the engine by vehicle, but I found an Econoline Superduty V10 subset that shows between 6 and 10 mpg over 68k miles of combined data. You can enter your vehicle and get actual data from others and/or sign up to include your data.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/econ...=&submodel_id=

[SoonerAviator]

Fuelly.com is a site that is crowdsourced mpg data. From what I can tell, you have to look at the engine by vehicle, but I found an Econoline Superduty V10 subset that shows between 6 and 10 mpg over 68k miles of combined data. You can enter your vehicle and get actual data from others and/or sign up to include your data.

https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/econ...=&submodel_id=

The V10 was popular in the Ford Excursion as well as it was the most powerful non-diesel engine option. Most guys claim low teens for highway mileage, around 10mpg city, and single digits when towing anything significant. It's an 8K lb SUV, but likely has better drag profile than a camper. Main downside is that it is paired to a 4spd auto transmission that doesn't do it any fuel efficiency favors.

[SoonerGrad78]

Do you have the Ford V-10? Good RV gas motor, but galdamn they suck some fuel. My son's has the big block Chevy motor and it burns fuel sitting still. My 41' with the Cummins diesel averages about 8-9, and it's always loaded to the hilt, and I set the cruise at 75.

Yeah, the Triton V-10. I tow a Chevy Equinox AWD and get 6.5-7.0 mpg. It really depends headwinds, tailwinds, up and down hills, mountains, etc. But, I sure like my $90 oil change and a little cheaper gas. I do wish I had a diesel when traveling in the mountains, but my little gas engine chugs uphill in the truck lane at about 30-35 mph, as I chant, “I think I can, I think I can”.

[RockFlagandEagle]

[Middle Aged Man]

I like the way you can do a full 360 under it, but do wonder if you can drive on more than level or downhill road with the 45 horsepower.

[SoonerMBA]

I like the way you can do a full 360 under it, but do wonder if you can drive on more than level or downhill road with the 45 horsepower.

Yes, but you have to pack your luggage and the ice chest in the car to keep the weight down! LOL

[Middle Aged Man]

What are most travel trailer and 5th wheel roofs made out of? I read a lot of people on different forums saying that they need replacement to keep from leaking.

[keef]

What are most travel trailer and 5th wheel roofs made out of? I read a lot of people on different forums saying that they need replacement to keep from leaking.

you could've just pm'd sly? ass