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    Originally posted by camel at sea View Post

    "son" lol. You made an argument about needing five star talent to win titles, called anyone out to name one counter-example... then I did. Then you moved the goalposts and started talking about outliers. You can win titles like Bama does, or like UGA did last year... or you can win them the way Clemson has done (roster retention and maxing out the development of high 4 star athletes.)

    The Clemson approach is pretty relevant to OU, 1) because Clemson has been the 2nd best program nationally over the last decade, and 2) because we just hired a Clemson guy to run our program.

    Yer not one of these guys, ehhh???




    Heh

    Comment


      Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post

      LOL, yes North Dakota State is what I meant to say. Which is why I mentioned Bohl, Klieneman, and the next guy. I'm sure you know what I meant.
      Actually, I didn't know what you meant.

      I know that Bohl and Klieman both moved up to FBS from NDSU.

      But you made reference to a third coach who has bad teeth. I don't know who that is. Matt Entz followed Klieman at NDSU, and he's still there. He hasn't moved up yet. Does he have bad teeth?
      Live Free or Die!

      Comment


        Star ratings are meant to generate interest in recruiting. They're generally a bunch of hooey. A players star rating goes up depending upon who offers him. These recruiting services are selling drama and they keep this rating game going. It provides them content year around.

        Yes, there are some players who have measurables that make them stand out and are pretty sure bets to be starters at the college level. But there's plenty of others who've not developed yet or been in high school programs that will develop their talent.

        OU's 2023 QB recruit, just got his star rating raised from a four to a five last week. What did he do in the past month that gave him another star ? Hell, 4 star or 5 star, it doesn't matter. It matters much more what's done with them once they're on campus.

        Would I rather have an entire class of 5 stars over 3 stars , no doubt. I would place my bets on the best chances of success. But using star ratings to evaluate the talent level of a college team is futility.

        Players who make NFL teams is a much better metric. And not just drafted players, players who actually make NFL rosters.

        And ranking recruiting classes is even more perilous. All it takes for a high ranking class to fall to mediocre, is to lose a few players to injury, academics, personality problems, legal trouble, or they're just flat out busts.

        This silly debate has gone on for decades. Its circular and goes nowhere.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Hermit View Post
          Star ratings are meant to generate interest in recruiting. They're generally a bunch of hooey. A players star rating goes up depending upon who offers him. These recruiting services are selling drama and they keep this rating game going. It provides them content year around.

          Yes, there are some players who have measurables that make them stand out and are pretty sure bets to be starters at the college level. But there's plenty of others who've not developed yet or been in high school programs that will develop their talent.

          OU's 2023 QB recruit, just got his star rating raised from a four to a five last week. What did he do in the past month that gave him another star ? Hell, 4 star or 5 star, it doesn't matter. It matters much more what's done with them once they're on campus.

          Would I rather have an entire class of 5 stars over 3 stars , no doubt. I would place my bets on the best chances of success. But using star ratings to evaluate the talent level of a college team is futility.

          Players who make NFL teams is a much better metric. And not just drafted players, players who actually make NFL rosters.

          And ranking recruiting classes is even more perilous. All it takes for a high ranking class to fall to mediocre, is to lose a few players to injury, academics, personality problems, legal trouble, or they're just flat out busts.

          This silly debate has gone on for decades. Its circular and goes nowhere.
          Even going to the NFL or NFL draft picks doesn't always tell the story. The metric is putting guys consistently in the NFL and them doing well. And the last decade or so we've seen that do pretty well for Oklahoma overall compared to even the top schools. The defense needs to put more top guys in there. We have a few playing right now but if you compare it to the offensive guys we have in the league it's night and day. But what's the complaint under Lincoln Riley? The defense was just never that good. That is the biggest change we need to get in the SEC and compete day one. And I don't think it'll take as long as people think. I think our defensive issues started when we tried to go for smaller speed guys under Bob and it just never worked. You need size at least at tackle and you need LBs that can tackle.

          Comment


            All this talk about Lincoln Riley and OU, as Dan Lanning sits in Eugene and has no respect for Riley's coaching prowess. He needs to worry about the Pac 12, because Utah, Oregon, and UCLA do not fear Riley.

            Comment


              Originally posted by AdonijahAijalon View Post
              All this talk about Lincoln Riley and OU, as Dan Lanning sits in Eugene and has no respect for Riley's coaching prowess. He needs to worry about the Pac 12, because Utah, Oregon, and UCLA do not fear Riley.

              Lanning's expression is even better than Tosh's comment.

              btw, there's no way to say whether it's true or not, but a LOT of people on Twitter think that TBOW's PR blitz is mostly in response to Lanning's recruiting pitch, in which he's basically telling players that muleshoe was too much of a pussy to face the SEC.

              Comment


                Originally posted by novasooner View Post

                Lanning's expression is even better than Tosh's comment.

                btw, there's no way to say whether it's true or not, but a LOT of people on Twitter think that TBOW's PR blitz is mostly in response to Lanning's recruiting pitch, in which he's basically telling players that muleshoe was too much of a pussy to face the SEC.
                There are people on this board to this very day that try to claim that game was "close"...

                Comment


                  Originally posted by camel at sea View Post

                  "son" lol. You made an argument about needing five star talent to win titles, called anyone out to name one counter-example... then I did. Then you moved the goalposts and started talking about outliers. You can win titles like Bama does, or like UGA did last year... or you can win them the way Clemson has done (roster retention and maxing out the development of high 4 star athletes.)

                  The Clemson approach is pretty relevant to OU, 1) because Clemson has been the 2nd best program nationally over the last decade, and 2) because we just hired a Clemson guy to run our program.

                  Your numbers were not correct, mine were. Clemson had the Private Messages most talented team and 4 five star athletes. That was a clear outlier as the next lowest was 7, almost double.

                  You did not point out anything. I am the one posting the data on how many 5 star player they had. I knew this before I posted. Did you not realize that? lol

                  Clemson in 2016 is not a good comparison for OU in the SEC. It's simply not a similar situation even through the DC was there.

                  1. Dabo managed to keep a really cohesive staff together for a long run, that is not likely to happen again as coaches move constantly.
                  2. A lot has changed since 2016, a lot has changed since 2019 for that matter.
                  3. DC's like BV are not going to attract the type of offensive players OU is used to getting, it will take a really good OC to make that happen. A QB developer.
                  4. Clemson's situation is similar to OU in the B12 playing cupcakes, inflated records, etc The same is not true in the SEC. I don't think Clemson/FSU would do as well in the SEC either which would hurt recruiting.



                  So my point is it takes a lot of 5 star guys to win NC's these days. The data says you need top 4 talent, and 12 five star guys to win a NC. That is a fact.

                  Your point is you think a team with 4 five star athletes will be able to win a NC moving forward? And you think OU in the SEC is a similar situation to Clemson in the ACC?

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Stinger_1066 View Post

                    Actually, I didn't know what you meant.

                    I know that Bohl and Klieman both moved up to FBS from NDSU.

                    But you made reference to a third coach who has bad teeth. I don't know who that is. Matt Entz followed Klieman at NDSU, and he's still there. He hasn't moved up yet. Does he have bad teeth?
                    If you knew Bohl and Klieneman won NC's and NDSU, and I mentioned them specifically it would seem like you should. But that's your deal.

                    Yes, there is something weird going on with his teeth, I watched the NC game and I could not tell, Maybe braces he was hiding.


                    The point there is neither Bohl, Kleinman, or Ertz are amazing coaches, they won NC"s because they had more talent, built in advantages, etc.. Same is true in FBS as coaches like O,Les, and Chizik won NC's but are really not regarded as elite coaches,but they had elite talent and won a NC.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post

                      The data says you need top 4 talent, and 12 five star guys to win a NC. That is a fact.
                      Twelve, eh? I was thinking maybe eleven plus a high four-star would do it. But data--you just can't argue with that.
                      Last edited by Balko; 06-13-2022, 08:14 AM.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post

                        If you knew Bohl and Klieneman won NC's and NDSU, and I mentioned them specifically it would seem like you should. But that's your deal.

                        Yes, there is something weird going on with his teeth, I watched the NC game and I could not tell, Maybe braces he was hiding.


                        The point there is neither Bohl, Kleinman, or Ertz are amazing coaches, they won NC"s because they had more talent, built in advantages, etc.. Same is true in FBS as coaches like O,Les, and Chizik won NC's but are really not regarded as elite coaches,but they had elite talent and won a NC.
                        I got your point, and I agree with you.

                        However, you implied that the current coach at NDSU had moved up to FBS and had not been successful. That confused me. I must have misunderstood.
                        Live Free or Die!

                        Comment


                          Middle Aged Man's Lucky Charms Breakfast Cereal Power Rankings are in for 2022. Oklahoma has the highest rated team in the history of the universe. A whopping 9 stars average for this squad by far beats anything ever previously seen.

                          ​​​​​ Amazingly, every player who signed with Oklahoma this year is a full two (2) stars (*) higher than any other ranking service. Even more amazingly, every single player who was previously on the Oklahoma team and stayed through the transition to new Head Coach Brent Venables has seen their original ranking increase by 3 stars.

                          Many are asking: "how this can be?" As Kramer infamously said : "Oh, it be! "

                          While Middle Aged Man's Lucky Charms Breakfast Cereal Power Rankings does not release our methodology, you can trust the science.

                          All 2022, 5 star players on other people's lists are now 7 stars here. 4 stars are now 6 stars. And what previously only got you 3 stars with those other guys gets you 5 stars here.

                          Players recruited prior to 2022 who were smart enough to stick around were rewarded for their genius. Even before they play a 2022 down, and even if they never play a down, their own stock has shot up by displaying a level of geniusness never before seen.

                          Previously, 5 stars was the best you could ever hope to be. No longer. If you are an Oklahoma player, you could potentially be an 8 star player, all because you chose Oklahoma and stayed. That's right, 8 stars. For the hearing impaired, that looks like this: ********.

                          Check back soon for more details about individual plauers.

                          Comment


                            Where do I send my $9.99?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by soonergrad View Post

                              There are people on this board to this very day that try to claim that game was "close"...
                              Well, the part of the game after Riley figured out CeeDee owned Patrick Surtain was close. It’s just that the game was lost before he figured it out. Another example of Riley not needing more talent as much as needing existing talent to not disappear for one or two quarters every week.

                              Comment


                                You guys are confusing correlation and causation. The data is clear that since the beginning of the cfb playoff that a team has to have an A in their name to win the NC...except for Clemson but we don't count them because they're an outlier.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by AppySooner View Post

                                  Well, the part of the game after Riley figured out CeeDee owned Patrick Surtain was close. It’s just that the game was lost before he figured it out. Another example of Riley not needing more talent as much as needing existing talent to not disappear for one or two quarters every week.
                                  That game was 28-0 before the popcorn was popped and if we got one stop I'd be surprised. The offense did come around but that game was never close or going to be with that awful defense..

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by Stinger_1066 View Post

                                    I got your point, and I agree with you.

                                    However, you implied that the current coach at NDSU had moved up to FBS and had not been successful. That confused me. I must have misunderstood.
                                    I was not clear, and used the wrong school so my bad.


                                    I'd much rather OU have a mediocre coach and be loaded with 5 star guys than to have some great "developer" and make excuses with less talent. To win a NC you gotta have the talent, coaching is not as important.
                                    Last edited by FoCoSooner; 06-13-2022, 02:49 PM.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Balko View Post

                                      Twelve, eh? I was thinking maybe eleven plus a high four-star would do it. But data--you just can't argue with that.
                                      Last 2 NC games have had a combined total of 59 five star players. It's not a coincidence


                                      Comment


                                        Sooners just got a commitment from a 6-4 , 200# WR from Nebraska who runs a 4.5 .

                                        I bet he ends up on the defensive side of the ball.

                                        What if he develops into a great rush end ?

                                        How does this player fit into the 5* star theory ?

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Barrister View Post

                                          That game was 28-0 before the popcorn was popped and if we got one stop I'd be surprised. The offense did come around but that game was never close or going to be with that awful defense..

                                          Yeah. We had a chance to make it close. If we'd managed to recover an onside kick, down 11 in the 4th quarter, we probably would have cut the lead to 4. Their defense had no answers for our offense once it got going. But our defense was so terrible they would have just marched the other direction and pushed the score back out to 11 again once they got the ball back.

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post

                                            Your numbers were not correct, mine were. Clemson had the Private Messages most talented team and 4 five star athletes. That was a clear outlier as the next lowest was 7, almost double.

                                            You did not point out anything. I am the one posting the data on how many 5 star player they had. I knew this before I posted. Did you not realize that? lol

                                            Clemson in 2016 is not a good comparison for OU in the SEC. It's simply not a similar situation even through the DC was there.

                                            1. Dabo managed to keep a really cohesive staff together for a long run, that is not likely to happen again as coaches move constantly.
                                            2. A lot has changed since 2016, a lot has changed since 2019 for that matter.
                                            3. DC's like BV are not going to attract the type of offensive players OU is used to getting, it will take a really good OC to make that happen. A QB developer.
                                            4. Clemson's situation is similar to OU in the B12 playing cupcakes, inflated records, etc The same is not true in the SEC. I don't think Clemson/FSU would do as well in the SEC either which would hurt recruiting.



                                            So my point is it takes a lot of 5 star guys to win NC's these days. The data says you need top 4 talent, and 12 five star guys to win a NC. That is a fact.

                                            Your point is you think a team with 4 five star athletes will be able to win a NC moving forward? And you think OU in the SEC is a similar situation to Clemson in the ACC?
                                            Clemson's 5 tars:

                                            2012 - 0
                                            2013 - 1 (if you count Mackensie Alexander and not all the services do)
                                            2014 - 0
                                            2015 - 3
                                            2016 - 1
                                            2017 - 2
                                            2018 - 5

                                            Their '16 title team doesn't meet your 5 stars criteria. Their '15 team nearly won the title game. The guy they signed in 2013 (who was a fringe 5 star) was drafted in 2016 - so he wasn't on the roster for their '18 team. That means they had 11 five stars on that '18 title squad and a lot of them were true freshmen. Obviously Trevor Lawrence made a difference.

                                            Bama built a dynasty on elite recruiting, piling up 5 stars, etc. Georgia now does the same thing.

                                            Clemson, the other dominant program of the CFP era, didn't win titles with the same formula as Bama. They won titles by developing heavily recruited 4 stars while plucking elite QBs to go with them. They've actually taken a half step back in the last 3 years despite improvement on the recruiting trail. Is BV likely to recreate the formula he helped to put in place at Clemson? That seems to be the goal. To address your points:

                                            1. A lot of his staff are OU grads. It's likely going to be pretty cohesive.
                                            2. This point isn't really even an actual point.
                                            3. BV already has a 5 star QB committed for the '23 cycle. We signed a pair of Top 10 RBs in the country last cycle after BV took the job. TX HS football (and OK HS football to a lesser degree) produces a lot of elite skill position talent on offense. You're just wish-casting. Elite offensive recruits want to play for Lebby.
                                            4. You're speculating that Clemson (with a whole bunch of CFP wins) wouldn't win in the SEC. This is more wish-casting and it's dumb at that. Either way, Venables likely has 2-3 years in the Big 12 before the SEC move.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by camel at sea View Post

                                              Clemson's 5 tars:

                                              2012 - 0
                                              2013 - 1 (if you count Mackensie Alexander and not all the services do)
                                              2014 - 0
                                              2015 - 3
                                              2016 - 1
                                              2017 - 2
                                              2018 - 5

                                              Their '16 title team doesn't meet your 5 stars criteria. Their '15 team nearly won the title game. The guy they signed in 2013 (who was a fringe 5 star) was drafted in 2016 - so he wasn't on the roster for their '18 team. That means they had 11 five stars on that '18 title squad and a lot of them were true freshmen. Obviously Trevor Lawrence made a difference.

                                              Bama built a dynasty on elite recruiting, piling up 5 stars, etc. Georgia now does the same thing.

                                              Clemson, the other dominant program of the CFP era, didn't win titles with the same formula as Bama. They won titles by developing heavily recruited 4 stars while plucking elite QBs to go with them. They've actually taken a half step back in the last 3 years despite improvement on the recruiting trail. Is BV likely to recreate the formula he helped to put in place at Clemson? That seems to be the goal. To address your points:

                                              1. A lot of his staff are OU grads. It's likely going to be pretty cohesive.
                                              2. This point isn't really even an actual point.
                                              3. BV already has a 5 star QB committed for the '23 cycle. We signed a pair of Top 10 RBs in the country last cycle after BV took the job. TX HS football (and OK HS football to a lesser degree) produces a lot of elite skill position talent on offense. You're just wish-casting. Elite offensive recruits want to play for Lebby.
                                              4. You're speculating that Clemson (with a whole bunch of CFP wins) wouldn't win in the SEC. This is more wish-casting and it's dumb at that. Either way, Venables likely has 2-3 years in the Big 12 before the SEC move.
                                              Notice you don't have a point when asked. Are you saying you think a team can win a NC moving forward with only 4 five star players?

                                              Your info is wrong.

                                              Here is the correct data that I have already posted and you ignored.
                                              of 5 star players on Clemson team (OU)
                                              2015 = 4 (1)
                                              2016= 4 (3)
                                              2017 = 6 (2)
                                              2018 = 9 (3)
                                              2019 = 7 (5)
                                              2020 = 11 (5)
                                              2021 = 10 (7)

                                              Having top 10 talent and 4 five star players is still a loaded team. As I mentioned when I posted the data they are a clear outlier at 4 which is almost half of the next lowest total of 7. And a lot has changed since that really unique situation in 2016. That was back before players left every time a coach yelled at them or got offered more $. What used to be around 2 five star guys per year has moved to 3-5 due to talent concentrating with NIL and transfers leaving.

                                              1. Having OU grads does not mean anything as far as staying.. OU, like most every other successful program, has lost some coaches over the years. What Dabo did at Clemson keeping a staff together is unheard of and certainly not to be expected anywhere else.
                                              2.You don't think college sports have changed since 2016? LMAO , yes son things have changed as the talent is even more concentrated in the top teams with 59 five star players in the last 2 NC games.
                                              3. Lebby is great, but he is not as well known as LR was. I can be realistic, you are not able to. So how many five stars are on the OU team? I predict you won't answer.
                                              4. No Clemson would not have been as successful playing in the SEC as they have in the ACC. They would lose more games, not play in as many CC's, not win as many CC's, etc.. Same is true if you plug in tOSU, FSU, OU, USC, Oregon, ETC into the SEC.

                                              So you have not been right about anything so far. Shall we keep going?

                                              If so you need to make a point.

                                              Is your point you think a team with 4 five star players can win a NC in the new era of football with NIL?
                                              Do you really think Clemson in the ACC in the 2010's pre NIL is similar to OU in the SEC in the 2020's after NIL?
                                              How many CC's do you think OU would have won in the SEC the last 10 years? If more than zero what years specifically?
                                              How many five stars are on the 2022 OU team?

                                              Let see how many answers you have.
                                              Last edited by FoCoSooner; 06-13-2022, 04:40 PM.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post
                                                Notice you don't have a point when asked. Are you saying you think a team can win a NC moving forward with only 4 five star players?

                                                Your info is wrong.

                                                Here is the correct data that I have already posted and you ignored.
                                                of 5 star players on Clemson team (OU)
                                                2015 = 4 (1)
                                                2016= 4 (3)
                                                2017 = 6 (2)
                                                2018 = 9 (3)
                                                2019 = 7 (5)
                                                2020 = 11 (5)
                                                2021 = 10 (7)

                                                Having top 10 talent and 4 five star players is still a loaded team. As I mentioned when I posted the data they are a clear outlier at 4 which is almost half of the next lowest total of 7. And a lot has changed since that really unique situation in 2016. That was back before players left every time a coach yelled at them or got offered more $. What used to be around 2 five star guys per year has moved to 3-5 due to talent concentrating with NIL and transfers leaving.

                                                1. Having OU grads does not mean anything as far as staying.. OU, like most every other successful program, has lost some coaches over the years. What Dabo did at Clemson keeping a staff together is unheard of and certainly not to be expected anywhere else.
                                                2.You don't think college sports have changed since 2016? LMAO , yes son things have changed as the talent is even more concentrated in the top teams with 59 five star players in the last 2 NC games.
                                                3. Lebby is great, but he is not as well known as LR was. I can be realistic, you are not able to. So how many five stars are on the OU team? I predict you won't answer.
                                                4. No Clemson would not have been as successful playing in the SEC as they have in the ACC. They would lose more games, not play in as many CC's, not win as many CC's, etc.. Same is true if you plug in tOSU, FSU, OU, USC, Oregon, ETC into the SEC.

                                                So you have not been right about anything so far. Shall we keep going?

                                                If so you need to make a point.

                                                Is your point you think a team with 4 five star players can win a NC in the new era of football with NIL?
                                                Do you really think Clemson in the ACC in the 2010's pre NIL is similar to OU in the SEC in the 2020's after NIL?
                                                How many CC's do you think OU would have won in the SEC the last 10 years? If more than zero what years specifically?
                                                How many five stars are on the 2022 OU team?

                                                Let see how many answers you have.
                                                My info about Clemson recruiting is not wrong. It's pulled right off of their 247 page. Maybe what you're not grasping is that next to each of the years, I'm telling you how many they signed in that particular class - not how many are on the roster total. In any case, none of their teams have had 12 five stars. Their '16 and '18 title teams both had "five star" recruiting numbers that OU could easily hit during the BV era. Riley didn't have close to the off-the-field recruiting staff that Venables has (or the on-field defensive staff generally) and he was moving us in the right direction in terms of on-paper talent. To answer your questions:

                                                1. Having OU grads as position coaches makes it far more likely that we will retain them for longer. We just kept almost our entire offensive staff despite our former OC/head coach leaving for another job. Three of those assistants are grads and BB self-identifies as an Oklahoman b/c his wife is from here. Thibs and Odom (both OU guys) almost certainly stay if BV had wanted to bring them on.
                                                2. I don't think you're making a point. Saying college sports has changed means nothing by itself. You need to explain what changes you are talking about and why they matters, etc.
                                                3. Lebby was a successful OC in the AAC and in the SEC. He's a MUCH more proven commodity than LR was when he was hired. Lebby's SEC offenses have been better than Riley's OU offenses the last couple of years.
                                                4. You have no idea what Clemson would have done in the SEC.


                                                You're dug in on one metric. OU hired a Clemson guy (not just BV but also Turnipseed, Chavis, Bates, and Roof) to install a Clemson approach. Everything Venables is doing right now (policy re: commitments, SOUL mission, staffing choices, etc.) is geared toward development and player retention. Dabo has proven you can win that way. And it's not like OU won't be recruiting well.

                                                Comment


                                                  He's about to blow his cover. Entered the realignement thread.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by camel at sea View Post

                                                    My info about Clemson recruiting is not wrong. It's pulled right off of their 247 page. Maybe what you're not grasping is that next to each of the years, I'm telling you how many they signed in that particular class - not how many are on the roster total. In any case, none of their teams have had 12 five stars. Their '16 and '18 title teams both had "five star" recruiting numbers that OU could easily hit during the BV era. Riley didn't have close to the off-the-field recruiting staff that Venables has (or the on-field defensive staff generally) and he was moving us in the right direction in terms of on-paper talent. To answer your questions:

                                                    1. Having OU grads as position coaches makes it far more likely that we will retain them for longer. We just kept almost our entire offensive staff despite our former OC/head coach leaving for another job. Three of those assistants are grads and BB self-identifies as an Oklahoman b/c his wife is from here. Thibs and Odom (both OU guys) almost certainly stay if BV had wanted to bring them on.
                                                    2. I don't think you're making a point. Saying college sports has changed means nothing by itself. You need to explain what changes you are talking about and why they matters, etc.
                                                    3. Lebby was a successful OC in the AAC and in the SEC. He's a MUCH more proven commodity than LR was when he was hired. Lebby's SEC offenses have been better than Riley's OU offenses the last couple of years.
                                                    4. You have no idea what Clemson would have done in the SEC.


                                                    You're dug in on one metric. OU hired a Clemson guy (not just BV but also Turnipseed, Chavis, Bates, and Roof) to install a Clemson approach. Everything Venables is doing right now (policy re: commitments, SOUL mission, staffing choices, etc.) is geared toward development and player retention. Dabo has proven you can win that way. And it's not like OU won't be recruiting well.
                                                    You didn't answer the questions, you avoided them and then pretended. That's how a little bitch acts when he doesn't' like the answers to a question.

                                                    The data on each team is right here son. https://247sports.com/Season/2016-Fo...lentComposite/

                                                    It's obvious which if us is right here.

                                                    The average NC team now has 12 five star players, that' is a fact.

                                                    1.If you want to pretend that OU is going to keep all the great coaches on staff go for it. Coaching turnover should be expected these days. The best teams lose coaches each year, to expect otherwise is naïve.
                                                    2. IF you are not smart enough to understand how transfers and NIL have changed the game since dabo built Clemson then I can't help you. Most of us can see that the situation has changed and the talent is more concentrated.
                                                    3. I don't think the Lebby name is quite where LR was at OU as far as a QB developer.
                                                    4. Yes, Clemson would lose more games in the SEC compared to the ACC. easier games = more wins.



                                                    Also funny that you could not answer my questions and you can't seem to make a point. Lets see some answer boy.





                                                    Is your point you think a team with 4 five star players can win a NC in the new era of football with NIL?

                                                    Do you really think Clemson in the ACC in the 2010's pre NIL is similar to OU in the SEC in the 2020's after NIL?

                                                    How many CC's do you think OU would have won in the SEC the last 10 years? If more than zero what years specifically?

                                                    How many five stars are on the 2022 OU team?

                                                    Last edited by FoCoSooner; 06-13-2022, 08:30 PM.

                                                    Comment


                                                      This puts the changes in perspective. In 2016 there were only 2 programs with 10+ 5ive star guys.By 2021 there were 4

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post
                                                        This puts the changes in perspective. In 2016 there were only 2 programs with 10+ 5ive star guys.By 2021 there were 4
                                                        How many 5 stars does it take to win the Big 12?

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post

                                                          Last 2 NC games have had a combined total of 59 five star players. It's not a coincidence

                                                          Of course it's not a coincidence. They were heavily recruited to those teams, they didn't just happen to show up.

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                                                            Originally posted by AdonijahAijalon View Post

                                                            How many 5 stars does it take to win the Big 12?
                                                            0. There is not a single 5 star player on any of the new Big 12 teams. Not one.

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                                                              Originally posted by Balko View Post

                                                              Of course it's not a coincidence. They were heavily recruited to those teams, they didn't just happen to show up.
                                                              That data is really interesting as you can see the transition. There were only 2 teams with 10+ five star guys back in 2016. Lots of teams with 3-8. Then it transitioned to 3 teams with 10+ 5ive star guys around 2018. By 2020 it was 4 teams with 10+ five star guys.

                                                              It's very likely we see USC, UT, and aTm join that group shortly. That will make 7 teams who have 10+ five star guys.

                                                              So from 2016 to 2023 we will have gone from 2 to 7 teams with 10+ five star guys.

                                                              This new era post transfers and NIL essentially going to function like a pro league with no salary caps. Also likely we see teams with 20+ five star guys.





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                                                                Originally posted by FoCoSooner View Post

                                                                0. There is not a single 5 star player on any of the new Big 12 teams. Not one.
                                                                Cincinatti had 9 players drafted.

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                                                                  If Bama offers a player, he gets a high star rating immediately. The recruiting services figure , that if Bama evaluated him and decided to offer, then he must be really good.

                                                                  So this theory that you must have 5 star players and then trying to prove the theory with " data " , is debunked, because Bama having a team of 5 stars is self fulfilling prophecy.

                                                                  How stupid is this stuff , huh ?

                                                                  Don't worry about the star ratings.

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                                                                    Originally posted by Hermit View Post

                                                                    Cincinatti had 9 players drafted.
                                                                    We had the most players drafted from here in like 12 years.

                                                                    I think it was also the same amount as Bama.

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                                                                      FoCo is clearly another SEC homer. All those guys care about is star ratings. Medaling in the offseason Star Olympics is as important to those guys as actually winning games played on the field each fall. It's bizarre.

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                                                                        I'll say it again BV wouldn't been my 1st choice by any means, but now that he is the man I will support him until I feel its time not to.
                                                                        Far as recruiting, the pattern is going about the way I called it...lots of 3 stars. IMO you can hit a home run on some three star player once in a while, but building a team with them will not work out so well.
                                                                        I do wish BV to be successful at OU

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                                                                          Originally posted by really View Post
                                                                          I'll say it again BV wouldn't been my 1st choice by any means, but now that he is the man I will support him until I feel its time not to.
                                                                          Far as recruiting, the pattern is going about the way I called it...lots of 3 stars. IMO you can hit a home run on some three star player once in a while, but building a team with them will not work out so well.
                                                                          I do wish BV to be successful at OU
                                                                          Really quick to pat your negative viewpoint on the back. I think you better hide and watch.

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                                                                            Originally posted by Hermit View Post

                                                                            Really quick to pat your negative viewpoint on the back. I think you better hide and watch.
                                                                            Only the negative counts? I guess we can overlook the positive...don't be so negative

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                                                                              Originally posted by ChocoLab View Post
                                                                              FoCo is clearly another SEC homer. All those guys care about is star ratings. Medaling in the offseason Star Olympics is as important to those guys as actually winning games played on the field each fall. It's bizarre.
                                                                              It's the Laffin dude.

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                                                                                Originally posted by Hermit View Post

                                                                                Cincinatti had 9 players drafted.
                                                                                We were discussing 5 star players. Cinci and the other new B12 teams do not have a single 5 star player.

                                                                                There is 0% chance a team with no five star talent can go win 2 games vs elite teams. 0%

                                                                                After OU leaves the B12 is no longer playing for the same trophy as the P-4.

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                                                                                  Originally posted by really View Post
                                                                                  I'll say it again BV wouldn't been my 1st choice by any means, but now that he is the man I will support him until I feel its time not to.
                                                                                  Far as recruiting, the pattern is going about the way I called it...lots of 3 stars. IMO you can hit a home run on some three star player once in a while, but building a team with them will not work out so well.
                                                                                  I do wish BV to be successful at OU
                                                                                  Not a completely invalid concern, but I also think it's logical that the "don't commit until you're sure" policy is going to be frontloaded with the undervalued kids who jump at the opportunity to be on an OU roster. Some of these kids will also end up being 4 stars because they showed out in summer camps or because they get the "OU boost". If this pattern continues until signing day, I will be concerned, but I don't think it will.

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                                                                                    Originally posted by ChocoLab View Post
                                                                                    FoCo is clearly another SEC homer. All those guys care about is star ratings. Medaling in the offseason Star Olympics is as important to those guys as actually winning games played on the field each fall. It's bizarre.
                                                                                    Nope. This is about the talent required to win a NC, and how the talent is concentrating.

                                                                                    The average NC team has at least the 4th most talented roster, and 12 five star players. Both are trending up.

                                                                                    59 five star players were in the last 2 NC games.

                                                                                    There were 2 teams with 10+ five star players in 2016, by 2018 that #was 3. In 2021 it was up to 4. With NIL there will likely be 6-7 teams with 10+ five star players shortly.

                                                                                    We will also see teams with more than 20 five star players in the next few years which is an insane amount of talent.
                                                                                    Last edited by FoCoSooner; 06-14-2022, 01:00 PM.

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                                                                                      Originally posted by EatLeadCommie View Post

                                                                                      Not a completely invalid concern, but I also think it's logical that the "don't commit until you're sure" policy is going to be frontloaded with the undervalued kids who jump at the opportunity to be on an OU roster. Some of these kids will also end up being 4 stars because they showed out in summer camps or because they get the "OU boost". If this pattern continues until signing day, I will be concerned, but I don't think it will.
                                                                                      This is what makes the off season fun. Will be kickoff before we know it

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                                                                                        Originally posted by EatLeadCommie View Post

                                                                                        Not a completely invalid concern, but I also think it's logical that the "don't commit until you're sure" policy is going to be frontloaded with the undervalued kids who jump at the opportunity to be on an OU roster. Some of these kids will also end up being 4 stars because they showed out in summer camps or because they get the "OU boost". If this pattern continues until signing day, I will be concerned, but I don't think it will.
                                                                                        True. If OU plays well in the fall, I expect recruits to take notice.

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                                                                                          Originally posted by AdonijahAijalon View Post
                                                                                          True. If OU plays well in the fall, I expect recruits to take notice.
                                                                                          This.

                                                                                          I have a family connection to a four-star recruit whose name you'd probably recognize. OU isn't currently on his list of schools, but he's said that he talks with other recruits and many are watching OU closely this season. The general sentiment (from him) is that there are a lot of big names who were/are interested in OU, but first want to see what kind of on-field results Venables is going to get.

                                                                                          You have to remember, for most of these 15-17 year-old kids, our-former-coach-who-shall-remain-nameless IS the face of the program. They barely remember even Baker! For many of them OU = Kyler, Jalen, Spencer, and the-other-guy-who-shall-remain-nameless. Hell, most of the current classes of bigtime recruits were in grade school when Stoops was coaching. So you have to take into consideration just how disruptive our former coach's departure was for them.

                                                                                          My expectation is that OU comes out and starts fucking other teams up with physical defense and video game numbers on offense. There's going to be a "sudden" interest from a few big names, which will spur on some additional momentum with others.

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                                                                                            Originally posted by really View Post

                                                                                            Only the negative counts? I guess we can overlook the positive...don't be so negative

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                                                                                              Originally posted by really View Post
                                                                                              I'll say it again BV wouldn't been my 1st choice by any means, but now that he is the man I will support him until I feel its time not to.
                                                                                              Far as recruiting, the pattern is going about the way I called it...lots of 3 stars. IMO you can hit a home run on some three star player once in a while, but building a team with them will not work out so well.
                                                                                              I do wish BV to be successful at OU

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                                                                                                Originally posted by AdonijahAijalon View Post


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                                                                                                  I have not the slightest concern about OU's and BV's current recruiting and the number of *** among the recruits commited to OU, regardless the statistics FoMoCo posts. Kalib Hicks is a *** but is offered by Bama, Auburn, and etc., and will be a 5*. Jackson Arnold is already a 5*. Yeah, OU isn't going to wiin the CFP this year--only the B12--but the future is bright--espeially because of the coaches and other program staff.

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                                                                                                    I would put more faith in the 5 star requirement to win a NC if the teams with all the 5 stars played 9 regular season conference games. As you know the SEC and ACC play 8 conference games and they are the only two conferences to win a NC. No team that played nine regular season conference games has won a NC. Until the playing field is level your data is not absolute.

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                                                                                                      Originally posted by Barrister View Post
                                                                                                      Don't want this to be a Riley thread, but he said in a recent interview, that he went to 4 playoffs and had the 4th best roster except once when he had the 3rd best roster. He then went on to indicate he couldn't build that type roster at OU as easily as at USC. Again, don't care about Riley, but is he right that in this environment, can OU build the best roster in the country? We always seem to recruit around 8-10 so it would seem that sentiment might be right. Thoughts?
                                                                                                      Not only ultra-elite, IMHO, BV can go the extra prairie mile and build a red-hot-super-duper-double-triple-whamo-turbocharged-all-time-all-universe-invincible roster.

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