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    Originally posted by slice1900 View Post


    Either scenario would take Texas and Oklahoma off the table. I don't think there are any steps the commissioners COULD take at that point, since obviously both would have already tried talking to those two schools but if they'd decided in favor of the Pac 12 scenario there's nothing the commissioners can do about it.
    It would be time for the Big 10 and SEC to set up a scheduling agreement between the two of them to push ahead revenue wise, and to encourage non CFP bowl games against the other P2 instead of each other. That's the cash perk that keeps the distance and pressure on that Big 12/PAC alliance, and more importantly would add pressure to a blocked and lagging ACC to set up moves around 2035 that could still benefit both the reach, and leverage of the Big 10 and SEC. That's what I would do as commissioner under those circumstances.

    Comment


      Originally posted by JRsec* View Post

      It would be time for the Big 10 and SEC to set up a scheduling agreement between the two of them to push ahead revenue wise, and to encourage non CFP bowl games against the other P2 instead of each other. That's the cash perk that keeps the distance and pressure on that Big 12/PAC alliance, and more importantly would add pressure to a blocked and lagging ACC to set up moves around 2035 that could still benefit both the reach, and leverage of the Big 10 and SEC. That's what I would do as commissioner under those circumstances.
      But why not do those things anyway, and why not now instead of waiting until 2023 after they can't get the two schools they covet? Those things don't depend on what Texas and Oklahoma may or may not do in 2023.

      Comment


        Originally posted by slice1900 View Post

        But why not do those things anyway, and why not now instead of waiting until 2023 after they can't get the two schools they covet? Those things don't depend on what Texas and Oklahoma may or may not do in 2023.
        I would have no problem with it. We make the networks more money in the bowls in which we play. Why not contract to do it and make more money for ourselves. Plus both fan bases travel well. It's a win win.

        Comment


          Originally posted by slice1900 View Post


          Either scenario would take Texas and Oklahoma off the table. I don't think there are any steps the commissioners COULD take at that point, since obviously both would have already tried talking to those two schools but if they'd decided in favor of the Pac 12 scenario there's nothing the commissioners can do about it.
          I didn't mean that it was a done deal. You don't think either the B1G or the SEC might make a counter-offer?

          Comment


            Originally posted by billybud View Post
            Yeah...JR.

            I can get that...I knew Bobby Bowden and Don Shula, and had others who were people I have talked to but who didn't know me.
            You mean they might have known you but wouldn't remember you necessarily a year or two afterward. There are a lot of those in life. One governor knows me and it wouldn't take long to jog his memory. Tutu would remember me as the guy who lived across the hall from his daughter and talked with him on multiple occasions as he waited for her to come back from class. People who are movers and shakers will remember somebody who helped them get something done. They don't remember everyone they've spoken with. Bear would not have remembered me per se, but he would have known me by connections. That is precisely what I meant by being Forest Gump. He bumped into all kinds of folks while "fictionally" passing through history. We bump into all kinds of people "really" passing through history. If most people would note such occurrences they'd have more to tell their kids. I left out one of my childhood heroes because I had a conversation with him much later in my life when we shared a waiting room, Hank Aaron.

            People need to look around more, we truly do share more of the same space than folks realize. And behind the publicity most celebrities are just real people with the same problems we all face, except for maybe money.

            Some of the best things I've heard in life were from others who were sharing who in their lives they had known. I met one woman in Atlanta who was in her late 80's and this was sometime ago. She was the daughter of an Austrian general who was appropriated by the Third Reich. She literally knew all of the top Nazi's because they had come to her home on multiple occasions. How rare is it to meet somebody who knew the people in history that you could only read about? Ditto for a Colonel I knew who had served under Omar Bradley, Dwight Eisenhower, and George Patton. That's when you just shut up and listen. There's numerous other accounts and other interesting and notable persons I've met, but you get my point. The most interesting things you will ever know will come by associations, not by TV, the internet, and maybe not even by your friends, and they will come because you listened when those around you needed somebody to talk to.

            Comment


              Originally posted by RocketCitySooner View Post

              I didn't mean that it was a done deal. You don't think either the B1G or the SEC might make a counter-offer?
              There's no way Texas or Oklahoma would make a commitment in any direction without having first explored all their options, so they would already know what's on the table from the Big Ten and SEC. If they made the decision to go with a plan that involves the Pac, they would have decided it was a better deal for them than what the other conferences were offering.

              Whether that Pac thing was a 'done deal' or 'rumored' wouldn't matter, this isn't going to be a negotiation where the Big Ten and SEC are lowballing Texas and Oklahoma at first so they can swoop in later with a counter offer with better terms. The numbers are the numbers, they can't magically create another $5 million a year out of thin air. It wouldn't make sense to hold back even where there are points that may be open to some negotiation, like the buy in terms for BTN equity. You'd want to put your best foot forward.

              If the schools had some wish lists for minor points like number of night games or 11am starts, alternate locations for CCGs, or what have you they would make those known and the conference would either say "yeah we're open to that" or "no way" and aren't going to change their mind later just because the schools are going out to the dance floor with another partner.

              Comment


                Originally posted by slice1900 View Post

                There's no way Texas or Oklahoma would make a commitment in any direction without having first explored all their options, so they would already know what's on the table from the Big Ten and SEC. If they made the decision to go with a plan that involves the Pac, they would have decided it was a better deal for them than what the other conferences were offering.

                Whether that Pac thing was a 'done deal' or 'rumored' wouldn't matter, this isn't going to be a negotiation where the Big Ten and SEC are lowballing Texas and Oklahoma at first so they can swoop in later with a counter offer with better terms. The numbers are the numbers, they can't magically create another $5 million a year out of thin air. It wouldn't make sense to hold back even where there are points that may be open to some negotiation, like the buy in terms for BTN equity. You'd want to put your best foot forward.

                If the schools had some wish lists for minor points like number of night games or 11am starts, alternate locations for CCGs, or what have you they would make those known and the conference would either say "yeah we're open to that" or "no way" and aren't going to change their mind later just because the schools are going out to the dance floor with another partner.
                I should have chosen better words when I said: "PAC and XII will make some sort of a deal". I didn't mean that they had struck a deal only that they were in serious discussions with each other. Do you really think that B1G/SEC would make their first offer their first and only offer? What might they add to sweeten the deal? Would B1G/SEC be so indifferent to losing their only chance to snare OU/UT?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by RocketCitySooner View Post

                  I should have chosen better words when I said: "PAC and XII will make some sort of a deal". I didn't mean that they had struck a deal only that they were in serious discussions with each other. Do you really think that B1G/SEC would make their first offer their first and only offer? What might they add to sweeten the deal? Would B1G/SEC be so indifferent to losing their only chance to snare OU/UT?
                  Possibly. Both of our conferences would have a easier time assimilating programs to the East rather than the Southwest. None of them would really threaten the dominant programs (except maybe Clemson), most of them have much higher population states (except for Texas), and they complete our footprints in ways that would permit both the Big 10 and SEC to assert more leverage over our those footprints.

                  Comment


                    I ask again what does the Pac 12 offer that is not either part of what we have now, or what the other 3 conferences have. Their fanbases are VASTLY inferior to any of the other Power 5 and some G5s. Their tv deal is the worst of any of the P5 even with more teams than the Big 12. Outside of USC and maybe Washington historically they have done jack squat. So they have good academics, who cares. Academics don't put fans in the stands. Also, OU's academics have never and will never be given any kind of serious thought outside of Meterology and Oil and Gas engineering/sciency stuff. The culture of the Pac schools is as far away from ours as masculinity is from texas. The goal of college football should be one of two things, break up the Pac giving the Californias schools to the Big and then getting rid of Baylor and the Oregon schools and putting the rest in the Big 12 whilst adding BYU. the other option is instead of bigger conferences reverting to smaller conferences old SEC, ACC, Big East, Big 8, BIG, SWC, and the Pac 8 create a new conference for the Utah and Arizona schools while adding Boise, CSU, Wyoming, and Tulsa. everybody has between 8 and 10 schools old rivalries would be restored, 12/13 game schedules with an 8 team playoff, SEC no longer dominates the post season all conferences would operate under 1 National TV deal while each school would be allowed to broadcast their games on their own network if they weren't picked up by one of the many network landing spots. you would still have the haves and the have nots, but the have nots might have more access to move up than they did in the old days.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by RocketCitySooner View Post

                      I should have chosen better words when I said: "PAC and XII will make some sort of a deal". I didn't mean that they had struck a deal only that they were in serious discussions with each other. Do you really think that B1G/SEC would make their first offer their first and only offer? What might they add to sweeten the deal? Would B1G/SEC be so indifferent to losing their only chance to snare OU/UT?

                      Well again, HOW can they sweeten the deal? This isn't like buying a house where if someone offers more than you did you can raise your offer. Whatever the TV contracts etc. say the per school revenue will be is what the conferences can offer Texas and Oklahoma. They aren't going to offer unequal sharing to give them more, or give them a bigger vote in conference business. So what exactly would you propose as even the most hypothetical "sweetener" they could offer later in an "uh oh they might be going elsewhere" scenario that they wouldn't offer up front?

                      Comment


                        I know this is well known, but Bowlsby again confirmed that the ESPN+ dedicated streaming site will be called " Big 12 now" and contain content from 8 schools, minus Oklahoma & Texas

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by AlbinoCoconut View Post
                          I know this is well known, but Bowlsby again confirmed that the ESPN+ dedicated streaming site will be called " Big 12 now" and contain content from 8 schools, minus Oklahoma & Texas
                          Yeah, I don't think anyone is going to get too excited about that until they know what Oklahoma and Texas are going to do. If they stick around then perhaps that forms the basis of a Big12N at some point. If they don't it is eerily easy to fold over into the AAC deal, or vice versa.

                          Comment


                            This entire thread is filled with nonsense.

                            There is not any question in REALITY of Texas or Oklahoma or any other school of the BIG 12 Conference remotely thinking about switching to another conference. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

                            We have the same OOC posters (and trolls and shills, and probably some bots) discussing this absolutely made up fantasy OVER AND OVER AND OVER as though there is something to it--as though if they repeat it ten million times its real---BUT IT IS NOT REAL.

                            Nothing behind it but jealousy, coveting and wishful thinking from those in other conferences.

                            In the real world the BIG 12 is doing great as they move toward their next set of negotiations.

                            The Conference won several national championships and had several more runners up last year, distributed more revenue than ever before, and are launching BIG 12 NOW which is available on ESPN plus

                            From WVSports.com:

                            Big 12 Now - A new digital network will be available this fall called Big 12 Now on ESPN+.

                            Big 12 Now will be available 24/7, 365 on Apple TV, Android devices, Roku, ChromeCast, FireTV, Xbox One, PlayStation 4, Oculus Go and all new Samsung TVs, according to Bowlsby. The network can also be streamed on mobile devices, iPads, TVs, etc.

                            also from that article:

                            Competitively, the Big 12 won four national titles between Baylor women’s basketball, Oklahoma women’s gymnastics, Texas men’s tennis and Texas Tech men’s outdoor track and field.

                            Other feats include four Big 12 teams competing and finishing as runners-up in their sports and the Big 12 football Championship game breaking the attendance record for a conference championship at over 83,000.

                            “In addition to setting the record for attendance at a conference championship game, our basketball tournament was the best attended in our history and also among all of the major conferences last year,” Bowlsby added.

                            Student-athletes themselves racked up awards and honors as well such as former Oklahoma quarterback Kyler Murray capturing the Heisman Trophy and former Oklahoma State golfer Matthew Wolff earning National Player of the Year honors.


                            So as anyone living in reality can see, the BIG 12 is doing great, and there is no division in the conference or anyone imagining in the slightest leaving the conference.

                            That's simply made up total b.s. by people who don't deal well with reality.

                            Comment


                              As far as realignment goes, at this time the BIG 12 is not considering expansion--which only makes sense since they are several years yet ahead of negotiations:

                              From WVSports.com:

                              Bowlsby was quick to say that there have been no talks to expand the conference beyond its 10 teams and also mentioned that this was the seventh consecutive year that question was asked first.


                              “You are setting records,” Bowlsby joked.


                              One of the advantages of having 10 teams in the conference according to Bowlsby is in football, for example, all programs play each other during the regular season and the top two teams in the conference end up playing for the conference title.

                              Other programs such as the ACC, SEC and Big 10 have two divisions and the winners of those divisions square off in the title game.

                              The Round Robin format has been in place since the Big 12 Championship game returned in 2017 and has seen Oklahoma win the Big 12 title and earn a spot in the College Football Playoff the past two seasons.


                              “We think the full Round Robin is the right way to conduct competition and in the case of our basketball, full double Round Robin,” Bowlsby said. “We are distributing record revenues and we have heretofore unanticipated media opportunities and I don't expect that to be an active topic on anybody's agenda within the conference anytime in the foreseeable future.”

                              If they do broach expansion again, I imagine it will be after the B10 redoes its contracts or just as the PAC is working on their own. But, they may simply determine that financially and competitively they'll be better off sticking with 10--which is the best way (with round robin) to determine a true champion of a conference.

                              Comment


                                Interesting tidbit on BIG 12 NOW--the new streaming network of the BIG 12 via ESPN+ regarding Texas and OU:

                                We just think it was the right time to do it and frankly part of it is alignment as we go forward. We will have eight of our schools aligned. OU has a contract with Fox that goes I think another four years, and then the Longhorn Network is a little further out. So part of the process is aligning and putting ourselves in position for the future environment.

                                Here's the full article from WVSports.com
                                https://westvirginia.forums.rivals.c...script.206726/

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by Buckaineer View Post
                                  Interesting tidbit on BIG 12 NOW--the new streaming network of the BIG 12 via ESPN+ regarding Texas and OU:

                                  We just think it was the right time to do it and frankly part of it is alignment as we go forward. We will have eight of our schools aligned. OU has a contract with Fox that goes I think another four years, and then the Longhorn Network is a little further out. So part of the process is aligning and putting ourselves in position for the future environment.

                                  Here's the full article from WVSports.com
                                  https://westvirginia.forums.rivals.c...script.206726/
                                  It’s not an interesting tidbit at all Buck.

                                  First of all OU’s currents 3T contract does not go for another 4 years. So whoever made this statement is a moron.

                                  Second of all Buck it’s god dam embarrassing that anyone still believes Texas would throw in all their content to make this conference stronger in the future.

                                  Pull your fucking head out of your ass Buck and quit being such pussy to Texas. They are stopping this Conference from attaining stability and only Longhorns and your dumbass argue otherwise.

                                  You are not worthy to wear the Blue & Gold.

                                  Comment


                                    OU's third tier contract with FOX lasts through the end of 2022. So for the remainder of 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 The Sooners third tier rights are still tied up. Sure looks like about 4 years. I can understand how an OOC poser unfamiliar with either OU or the BIG 12 might not understand this.

                                    Texas' content is tied up through 2031--at which time their deal for LHN ends.

                                    As commissoner Bowlsby stated, the conference is working on lining things up for the future--as he stated "aligning and putting ourselves in position for the future environment."

                                    In the meantime with over 800 events on this new network, Texas and OU will appear often as it is when playing against their conference mates.

                                    It's damn embarrassing to pretend something else is going on when reality is staring you in the face.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Buckaineer View Post
                                      OU's third tier contract with FOX lasts through the end of 2022. So for the remainder of 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022 The Sooners third tier rights are still tied up. Sure looks like about 4 years. I can understand how an OOC poser unfamiliar with either OU or the BIG 12 might not understand this.

                                      Texas' content is tied up through 2031--at which time their deal for LHN ends.

                                      As commissoner Bowlsby stated, the conference is working on lining things up for the future--as he stated "aligning and putting ourselves in position for the future environment."

                                      In the meantime with over 800 events on this new network, Texas and OU will appear often as it is when playing against their conference mates.

                                      It's damn embarrassing to pretend something else is going on when reality is staring you in the face.


                                      OU’s 3rd Tier goes until June, 30th, 2022.

                                      Thats not 4 years from now you dumbass.

                                      But again facts has never meant anything to you Buck. Only putting on your little skirt and dancing around as some Big 12 Cheerleader is about the only thing you are interested in isn’t it Buck?

                                      You actually believe in 2031 Texas will give up the LHN in favor the Big 12 Now on ESPN+?

                                      You actually believe Oklahoma is going to put their 3T TV rights in with the rest of the Big 12 schools with the exception of Texas?

                                      Buck, you embarrass my school everyday you post your shit.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Buckaineer View Post
                                        This entire thread is filled with nonsense.
                                        The amount of nonsense in this thread is in direct proportion to the number of your posts.

                                        Originally posted by Buckaineer View Post
                                        We have the same OOC posters (and trolls and shills, and probably some bots) discussing this absolutely made up fantasy OVER AND OVER AND OVER as though there is something to it--as though if they repeat it ten million times its real---BUT IT IS NOT REAL.
                                        Name calling is the last resort of those who have realized that they are losing the argument.

                                        Comment


                                          Trolls and shills, and bots, oh my!

                                          Bucky proclamations and all else is a lie.

                                          It ain't pills or booze, it is a preacher's high.

                                          We're all going to hell in Buck's bye and bye.



                                          Comment


                                            Well, it's good to see that everyone is feeling chipper this morning! I see Dulcinea's honor has been impuned again. And Don Quixote is telling everyone else that they are making up B.S. because they can't deal with reality. Well I'm beginning to feel like it's "Ground Hogs Day."

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Buckaineer View Post

                                              It's damn embarrassing to pretend something else is going on when reality is staring you in the face.
                                              Buck what did OU interim president Joe Harroz mean when he recently said......

                                              We know there are big decisions coming, right? We know what that timetable looks like. I don’t want to not recognize there are issues that (OU BOR) we’re all gonna have to address.”


                                              It seems very clear that for OU some type of major change are in the works and the OU decision makers know it. I do not believe any one yet knows exactly what it is but some of the key OU donors also know major changes are in the works.

                                              Comment


                                                Located (on Wayback Machine) an old article that had been removed detailing what happened when Texas decided to leave the SWC. They first approached the Pac 10 alone and were shot down by Stanford, then they approached the Big Ten alone and were shot down by the 'expansion moratorium' after the Penn State add (bet Delaney since wished he had a mulligan on that decision) then they refused to consider the SEC due to academics.

                                                Only then they did take A&M (who already had eyes for the SEC even way back then) in tow to the Big 8, and have Baylor and Texas Tech forced on them by the state government. So I'm not sure where these ideas I see constantly here about what "Texas' business model requires" in terms of being in a conference with Texas teams to play a lot of games in the state of Texas comes from. They seemed fine with the idea of going it alone as the only Texas school to either the Pac 10 or Big Ten 30 years ago.

                                                I wonder if the state government only interfered when they did because Texas and Texas A&M were looking to move together, thus why they didn't interfere with A&M moving alone to the SEC 20 years later? Had they let Texas leave alone to the Pac 10 or Big Ten, if A&M later wanted to join the SEC would they have tried to force them to bring Baylor and Tech in tow?

                                                Things certainly could have turned out very differently, maybe Colorado would have jumped to the Pac 10 sooner. Or the Big Ten would have had a CCG all through the 90s and 00s. Or the Big 8/12/whatever would never have lost Nebraska or Missouri without their fear for the conference's stability due to Texas and half the conference playing footsie with the Pac 10.

                                                https://web.archive.org/web/20081024..._html8528.html

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
                                                  Following up on JR's comment about knowing Bear. I read in Sports Illustrated that Bear mowed his own grass. One afternoon a fashionable older woman stopped to admire his work and asked, not recognizing Bear in his workclothes, how much he charged for mowing. Bear responded: "I mow this lawn for free. The lady who lives here let's me sleep with her." The fashionable lady drove off.

                                                  And, from my own history, I pledged a fraternity at Oklahoma. Our most noted alumni was Speaker of the House, Carl Albert. One evening after a speech at the University he dropped by the fraternity house to see our new renovations. I was seated on the john when he walked in. He stepped right up to me, extended his hand, and said: "I'm Carl Albert, good to meet you." Then, he quickly demonstrated why he was such a great politician when he went on to say: "I bet you're a bit embarrassed but remember this, of all the people I met tonight. You're one I'll remember."
                                                  I come here for these posts

                                                  Can only add I think there is still time for me to meet Olivia de Haviland, although it might end by getting sued.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by slice1900 View Post
                                                    Located (on Wayback Machine) an old article that had been removed detailing what happened when Texas decided to leave the SWC. They first approached the Pac 10 alone and were shot down by Stanford, then they approached the Big Ten alone and were shot down by the 'expansion moratorium' after the Penn State add (bet Delaney since wished he had a mulligan on that decision) then they refused to consider the SEC due to academics.

                                                    Only then they did take A&M (who already had eyes for the SEC even way back then) in tow to the Big 8, and have Baylor and Texas Tech forced on them by the state government. So I'm not sure where these ideas I see constantly here about what "Texas' business model requires" in terms of being in a conference with Texas teams to play a lot of games in the state of Texas comes from. They seemed fine with the idea of going it alone as the only Texas school to either the Pac 10 or Big Ten 30 years ago.

                                                    I wonder if the state government only interfered when they did because Texas and Texas A&M were looking to move together, thus why they didn't interfere with A&M moving alone to the SEC 20 years later? Had they let Texas leave alone to the Pac 10 or Big Ten, if A&M later wanted to join the SEC would they have tried to force them to bring Baylor and Tech in tow?

                                                    Things certainly could have turned out very differently, maybe Colorado would have jumped to the Pac 10 sooner. Or the Big Ten would have had a CCG all through the 90s and 00s. Or the Big 8/12/whatever would never have lost Nebraska or Missouri without their fear for the conference's stability due to Texas and half the conference playing footsie with the Pac 10.

                                                    https://web.archive.org/web/20081024..._html8528.html
                                                    I doubt Sibley ever knew the full story, and the Jacksonville Times Union ran a nice gloss piece after F.S.U. joined the ACC. This is a reasonably accurate sanitized version of what transpired. The Texas A&M timeline is accurate, but Texas had talks with every adjoining conference too.

                                                    What the piece does is to reaffirm that there will be narrative that places UT on the high ground publicly every time they have to make a decision. The SWC wasn't what you would call an academic bastion. The upgrade came with joining the Big 8. That was the best academic association that Texas has ever had. But that said what was the end result? Colorado (AAU) to the PAC. Nebraska (then AAU) to the Big 10. Missouri and A&M (both AAU) to the SEC. So what's left in the current Big 12? Texas (AAU), Iowa State (Old Big 8 and AAU), Kansas (Old Big 8 and AAU). That translates into Texas and two AAU schools that would love to get the hell out of there!

                                                    The simple truth is that Texas cries academics, but they bully anyone who might be a peer into athletic concessions that benefit UT. And they still dragged Baylor and Texas Tech into the Big 12 with A&M. And when A&M scrammed they made sure they replaced them with another Texas school, T.C.U. Why? In part to continue that business model where they play 8 games inside the state of Texas per year, 7 at the low point. In part to have control over 1/3 of the votes in Big 12 meetings and one reason I will submit that nobody has been added to the Big 12 is that now they control 40% of the Big 12 vote.

                                                    So don't deceive yourself with this article Slice. It's a UT gloss. All Texas cares about is control. That is why the PAC deal fell apart. The flirtation with the Big 10 and SEC was to get a peek at the finances of each so they could construct an offer to blackmail the PAC into taking additional Texas schools if they had to move, which they didn't want to do in the first place. They saw another market challenged entity in the Big 8 and knew with 4 schools they could at least veto anything they didn't like.

                                                    The trick to landing Texas remains the same. They have to be the cheese before they leave. They have to be left standing alone. Once that happens, once Oklahoma and Kansas are gone, Texas will finally compromise. They know they won't be able to control another conference so what they will seek to do is to control a division, and keep their scheduling model in place.

                                                    Just wait and watch. What could save them is a paradigm shift among carriers. What would buy them more time is expansion of the playoffs. It's one reason those are reoccurring Big 12 themes, but both are possible. But, if Oklahoma does leave then and only then we will finally see the full priorities of Texas on display and I promise you they won't be academics. They will be dominated by stasis and control.
                                                    Last edited by JRsec*; 07-16-2019, 02:28 PM.

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by JRsec* View Post

                                                      I doubt Sibley ever knew the full story, and the Jacksonville Times Union ran a nice gloss piece after F.S.U. joined the ACC. This is a reasonably accurate sanitized version of what transpired. The Texas A&M timeline is accurate, but Texas had talks with every adjoining conference too.

                                                      What the piece does is to reaffirm that there will be narrative that places UT on the high ground publicly every time they have to make a decision. The SWC wasn't what you would call an academic bastion. The upgrade came with joining the Big 8. That was the best academic association that Texas has ever had. But that said what was the end result? Colorado (AAU) to the PAC. Nebraska (then AAU) to the Big 10. Missouri and A&M (both AAU) to the SEC. So what's left in the current Big 12? Texas (AAU), Iowa State (Old Big 8 and AAU), Kansas (Old Big 8 and AAU). That translates into Texas and two AAU schools that would love to get the hell out of there!

                                                      The simple truth is that Texas cries academics, but they bully anyone who might be a peer into athletic concessions that benefit UT. And they still dragged Baylor and Texas Tech into the Big 12 with A&M. And when A&M scrammed they made sure they replaced them with another Texas school, T.C.U. Why? In part to continue that business model where they play 8 games inside the state of Texas per year, 7 at the low point. In part to have control over 1/3 of the votes in Big 12 meetings and one reason I will submit that nobody has been added to the Big 12 is that now they control 40% of the Big 12 vote.

                                                      So don't deceive yourself with this article Slice. It's a UT gloss. All Texas cares about is control. That is why the PAC deal fell apart. The flirtation with the Big 10 and SEC was to get a peek at the finances of each so they could construct an offer to blackmail the PAC into taking additional Texas schools if they had to move, which they didn't want to do in the first place. They saw another market challenged entity in the Big 8 and knew with 4 schools they could at least veto anything they didn't like.

                                                      The trick to landing Texas remains the same. They have to be the cheese before they leave. They have to be left standing alone. Once that happens, once Oklahoma and Kansas are gone, Texas will finally compromise. They know they won't be able to control another conference so what they will seek to do is to control a division, and keep their scheduling model in place.

                                                      Just wait and watch. What could save them is a paradigm shift among carriers. What would buy them more time is expansion of the playoffs. It's one reason those are reoccurring Big 12 themes, but both are possible. But, if Oklahoma does leave then and only then we will finally see the full priorities of Texas on display and I promise you they won't be academics. They will be dominated by stasis and control.
                                                      Texas has been poison to every conference they've affiliated with.
                                                      Oklahoma would be far better off if Texas went to the PAC leaving OU to pursue B1G or SEC. Nothing wrong with either of those choices.
                                                      And, either of those conferences would be far better off with Oklahoma and without Texas.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by OU48A View Post

                                                        Buck what did OU interim president Joe Harroz mean when he recently said......

                                                        We know there are big decisions coming, right? We know what that timetable looks like. I don’t want to not recognize there are issues that (OU BOR) we’re all gonna have to address.”


                                                        It seems very clear that for OU some type of major change are in the works and the OU decision makers know it. I do not believe any one yet knows exactly what it is but some of the key OU donors also know major changes are in the works.

                                                        Speaking of big decisions is Harroz going to become Oklahoma’s next President? As in long term President who can, with OU’s BOR, make long term decisions?

                                                        Whats the hold up in Norman in naming a new President?

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by slice1900 View Post
                                                          Located (on Wayback Machine) an old article that had been removed detailing what happened when Texas decided to leave the SWC. They first approached the Pac 10 alone and were shot down by Stanford, then they approached the Big Ten alone and were shot down by the 'expansion moratorium' after the Penn State add (bet Delaney since wished he had a mulligan on that decision) then they refused to consider the SEC due to academics.

                                                          Only then they did take A&M (who already had eyes for the SEC even way back then) in tow to the Big 8, and have Baylor and Texas Tech forced on them by the state government. So I'm not sure where these ideas I see constantly here about what "Texas' business model requires" in terms of being in a conference with Texas teams to play a lot of games in the state of Texas comes from. They seemed fine with the idea of going it alone as the only Texas school to either the Pac 10 or Big Ten 30 years ago.

                                                          I wonder if the state government only interfered when they did because Texas and Texas A&M were looking to move together, thus why they didn't interfere with A&M moving alone to the SEC 20 years later? Had they let Texas leave alone to the Pac 10 or Big Ten, if A&M later wanted to join the SEC would they have tried to force them to bring Baylor and Tech in tow?

                                                          Things certainly could have turned out very differently, maybe Colorado would have jumped to the Pac 10 sooner. Or the Big Ten would have had a CCG all through the 90s and 00s. Or the Big 8/12/whatever would never have lost Nebraska or Missouri without their fear for the conference's stability due to Texas and half the conference playing footsie with the Pac 10.

                                                          https://web.archive.org/web/20081024..._html8528.html
                                                          Thanks for posting

                                                          Since items like distance, time zones and state of Texas politics will still likely still be factors in any decision, that information is well worth remembering in CR.

                                                          If 4 Big 12 members moved to the Big Ten.....it would largely address UT’s concerns with distance and time zones.

                                                          There will be a state of Texas political faction that will not want UT moving anywhere without another university from Texas. Most likely that would be Tech.
                                                          ..
                                                          B1G members would gain better exposure in Texas for recruiting all sports...including warmer weather for spring sports. More high achieving students would learn more about the B1G.
                                                          The Big Ten needs to not be rigid and understand what's going on with others. They need to be flexible....If they are they can help each of their existing universities. if they are not they could be leaving many millions on the table.



                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by Julius View Post

                                                            Speaking of big decisions is Harroz going to become Oklahoma’s next President? As in long term President who can, with OU’s BOR, make long term decisions?

                                                            Whats the hold up in Norman in naming a new President?
                                                            The last I heard OU is in the middle of conducting an extensive search for a new OU president...
                                                            I was told at a 4th of July gathering that Joe H certainly has his supporters... but others have there’s too...

                                                            No word on a time table but it could still be several more months... But I really don't know how soon.

                                                            It will help any new OU president that the mess Boren left behind has or is in the process of being repaired.... some of that is being done by Joe H.
                                                            Putting Boren’s mismanagement of OU behind us cannot come soon enough.

                                                            Now that Boren and his people are gone the consensus in Norman is that far less is leaking out... which is probably a good thing.

                                                            Comment


                                                              Value is in the eye of the beholder. Here is Pat Forde's ranking of all 65 P5 schools by over athletic success

                                                              https://sports.yahoo.com/ranking-all...183430194.html

                                                              The Big 12 stacks up this way:

                                                              #6 Texas
                                                              #22 Oklahoma
                                                              #25 Oklahoma State
                                                              #33 Baylor
                                                              #42 Texas Tech
                                                              #46 TCU
                                                              #54 Iowa State
                                                              #55 West Virginia
                                                              #58 Kansas
                                                              #61 Kansas State

                                                              Comment


                                                                Suppose Texas decides to move to the PAC since PAC would allow them to keep the LHN. The PAC has room to take up to four more schools allowing Texas to maintain it's business model (seven or eight in-state games) and preserving a Texas centric voting block.

                                                                Assume Texas decides to leave Oklahoma behind because:
                                                                Having Oklahoma as a conference member isn't necessary to keep an in-state game, the RRR.
                                                                Taking three additional Texas schools would facilitate Texas State Politics.

                                                                Hypothetical Question: Which three other schools from the state of Texas would Texas like to take along?

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by XLance View Post
                                                                  Value is in the eye of the beholder. Here is Pat Forde's ranking of all 65 P5 schools by over athletic success

                                                                  https://sports.yahoo.com/ranking-all...183430194.html

                                                                  The Big 12 stacks up this way:

                                                                  #6 Texas
                                                                  #22 Oklahoma
                                                                  #25 Oklahoma State
                                                                  #33 Baylor
                                                                  #42 Texas Tech
                                                                  #46 TCU
                                                                  #54 Iowa State
                                                                  #55 West Virginia
                                                                  #58 Kansas
                                                                  #61 Kansas State

                                                                  Overall athletic success is meaningless for conference CR, because only two sports have any real value and one of those is by far dominant in value. It is great that Iowa has a giant pile of wrestling NCs, a lot of Hawkeye fans are wrestling fans ONLY because of our historic success in the sport. But it would mean zilch if Iowa was on the outside looking in when it came to CR.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by Notre Dame Joe View Post

                                                                    I come here for these posts

                                                                    Can only add I think there is still time for me to meet Olivia de Haviland, although it might end by getting sued.
                                                                    I read recently that Ms DeHavilland, now about 102 years of age, teaches Sunday School for children at a church in Paris.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by OU48A View Post

                                                                      The last I heard OU is in the middle of conducting an extensive search for a new OU president...
                                                                      I was told at a 4th of July gathering that Joe H certainly has his supporters... but others have there’s too...

                                                                      No word on a time table but it could still be several more months... But I really don't know how soon.

                                                                      It will help any new OU president that the mess Boren left behind has or is in the process of being repaired.... some of that is being done by Joe H.
                                                                      Putting Boren’s mismanagement of OU behind us cannot come soon enough.

                                                                      Now that Boren and his people are gone the consensus in Norman is that far less is leaking out... which is probably a good thing.
                                                                      You're still pretending that Harroz isn't one of Boren's people?

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by slice1900 View Post


                                                                        Overall athletic success is meaningless for conference CR, because only two sports have any real value and one of those is by far dominant in value. It is great that Iowa has a giant pile of wrestling NCs, a lot of Hawkeye fans are wrestling fans ONLY because of our historic success in the sport. But it would mean zilch if Iowa was on the outside looking in when it came to CR.
                                                                        If a conference has a network, it's important for the conference to possess a wide array of good sports teams to provide enough inventory to present between January and Labor Day. Not even the SECN could survive on football game reruns.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          Originally posted by Notre Dame Joe View Post

                                                                          I come here for these posts

                                                                          Can only add I think there is still time for me to meet Olivia de Haviland, although it might end by getting sued.
                                                                          Yeah I would think so, she's still kicking at around 102 I think. I met her way back in the early 80's.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by EdwordL View Post

                                                                            I read recently that Ms DeHavilland, now about 102 years of age, teaches Sunday School for children at a church in Paris.
                                                                            There were a few things that left me cold about Gone With the Wind, why did Scarlet want Ashley Wilkes and why in the hell did Melanie marry him!

                                                                            In real life, Leslie Howard was a spy behind enemy lines for the British, and was a stud in that regard. He died in service to England in '43. In the movie he was insufferable!

                                                                            BTW: Had I read your post first I wouldn't have responded with "She's 102."

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              I saw George Jones being arrested for possession of cocaine south of Jackson, MS a long time ago.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by PlayDeep60 View Post
                                                                                I saw George Jones being arrested for possession of cocaine south of Jackson, MS a long time ago.
                                                                                He must have stopped Loving Her that Day! Not surprised he got arrested, just a little surprised it was for coke. It was probably not a good time to meet him though!

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by ElectricSooner View Post
                                                                                  I ask again what does the Pac 12 offer that is not either part of what we have now, or what the other 3 conferences have. Their fanbases are VASTLY inferior to any of the other Power 5 and some G5s. Their tv deal is the worst of any of the P5 even with more teams than the Big 12. Outside of USC and maybe Washington historically they have done jack squat. So they have good academics, who cares. Academics don't put fans in the stands. Also, OU's academics have never and will never be given any kind of serious thought outside of Meterology and Oil and Gas engineering/sciency stuff. The culture of the Pac schools is as far away from ours as masculinity is from texas.
                                                                                  Going to the PAC doesn't make sense right now. If someone with deep pockets becomes a partner for the PAC on the PACN, then maybe that would change. Amazon as an equity partner would be pretty ideal for them. But that remains to be seen.

                                                                                  Adding a few of the PAC schools to the Big 12 could work, though. As far as fit goes, USC is a football school. They're a lot of other things, too, but they're a football school. They're a little different than the rest of the original PAC 8 in that respect. They're basically the California version of Texas (just with better tradition.) So if we fit with UT, we'd fit well enough with SC. They've got so much money coming from so many different directions that they're occasionally dysfunctional for long periods of time. So that's also like Texas. We're familiar with that. But the helmet means something nationally. And I'm positive that a lot of their BMDs don't like how marginalized they are with the eastern media, out west right now. The Notre Dame rivalry doesn't carry the weight that it once did. Their conference games don't create the same buzz that they once did - even when they're in big games. I think that's a function of every game being on TV now. That marginalization goes away in the Big 12.

                                                                                  Beyond that, the Arizona schools would both fit in with the Big 12 in whichever way you want to look at it. Utah would fit. I think UCLA would be fine, too, if they weren't going alone. A hoops blue blood like UCLA might feel some rejuvenation in a much better basketball conference like the Big 12. We'd also be grafting their baseball, softball, and gymnastics programs onto a better long term situation than their current one.

                                                                                  And fwiw, if the Big 12 swiped four PAC schools, they'd still be in good enough shape to backfill without giving up P5 status. They could lose USC, UCLA, and the Arizona schools, and backfill with SDSU and one of BYU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise, Hawaii, or they could call up UC-Davis to FBS or something. They'd be fine with a ten team round robin, especially if the CFP expanded to 8.

                                                                                  There would be tradeoffs, though. The CCG would probably have to be in Phoenix occasionally. The hoops tourney wouldn't always be in KC, anymore. The round robin and double round robin format would go away. And I think you'd create an even more awkward situation with WVU. They'd have to market the heck out of being "West" Virginia.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by JRsec* View Post

                                                                                    He must have stopped Loving Her that Day! Not surprised he got arrested, just a little surprised it was for coke. It was probably not a good time to meet him though!
                                                                                    To be honest as I was driving by I knew he looked like George Jones but couldn't remember his name and yes he had a woman with him and was probably not a good time to say hello when I got home I told my parents what I had seen told them I thought it was Conway Twitty I didn't listen to country music then and don't now either. Later that evening it was on the news and then I found out it was George Jones. Was on my way to see my orthodontist Ray Guy's uncle.

                                                                                    You know that Lynyrd Skynyrd's plane crashed about 25 miles se of where I grew up in Mississippi and they brought the wreckage by flatbed to a salvage yard in Brookhaven. Years later I was on a flight out of Atlanta and had my walkman and pulled out Street Survivors and went to plug it in and the guy next to me asked me how I liked it told him I was a fan of theirs and about the crash not being far from my hometown and he took the cd case signed it and then told me he was Gary Rossington and handed it back to me.
                                                                                    Last edited by PlayDeep60; 07-16-2019, 08:14 PM.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by Buckaineer View Post
                                                                                      OU's third tier contract with Sinclair lasts through the end of 2022.
                                                                                      FIFY:

                                                                                      Sinclair to Buy Fox Regional Sports Networks From Disney for $10.6 ...

                                                                                      https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/.../sinclair-buy-fox-regional-sports-networks-disn...
                                                                                      May 3, 2019 - Walt Disney agreed to sell the channels to get regulatory approval for its $71.3 billion acquisition of large parts of 21st Century Fox. TV station giant Sinclair Broadcast Group has struck a $10.6 billion deal to acquire 21 regional Fox Sports networks that Walt Disney agreed to ...
                                                                                      Originally posted by RocketCitySooner View Post
                                                                                      Suppose Texas decides to move to the PAC since PAC would allow them to keep the LHN. The PAC has room to take up to four more schools allowing Texas to maintain it's business model (seven or eight in-state games) and preserving a Texas centric voting block.
                                                                                      It makes more sense for the top revenue earners in XII to look at raiding at least 4 to 6 PAC brands/ drop Baylor, allow WVU to (possibly) join ACC...

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by camel at sea View Post

                                                                                        Going to the PAC doesn't make sense right now. If someone with deep pockets becomes a partner for the PAC on the PACN, then maybe that would change. Amazon as an equity partner would be pretty ideal for them. But that remains to be seen.

                                                                                        Adding a few of the PAC schools to the Big 12 could work, though. As far as fit goes, USC is a football school. They're a lot of other things, too, but they're a football school. They're a little different than the rest of the original PAC 8 in that respect. They're basically the California version of Texas (just with better tradition.) So if we fit with UT, we'd fit well enough with SC. They've got so much money coming from so many different directions that they're occasionally dysfunctional for long periods of time. So that's also like Texas. We're familiar with that. But the helmet means something nationally. And I'm positive that a lot of their BMDs don't like how marginalized they are with the eastern media, out west right now. The Notre Dame rivalry doesn't carry the weight that it once did. Their conference games don't create the same buzz that they once did - even when they're in big games. I think that's a function of every game being on TV now. That marginalization goes away in the Big 12.

                                                                                        Beyond that, the Arizona schools would both fit in with the Big 12 in whichever way you want to look at it. Utah would fit. I think UCLA would be fine, too, if they weren't going alone. A hoops blue blood like UCLA might feel some rejuvenation in a much better basketball conference like the Big 12. We'd also be grafting their baseball, softball, and gymnastics programs onto a better long term situation than their current one.

                                                                                        And fwiw, if the Big 12 swiped four PAC schools, they'd still be in good enough shape to backfill without giving up P5 status. They could lose USC, UCLA, and the Arizona schools, and backfill with SDSU and one of BYU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise, Hawaii, or they could call up UC-Davis to FBS or something. They'd be fine with a ten team round robin, especially if the CFP expanded to 8.

                                                                                        There would be tradeoffs, though. The CCG would probably have to be in Phoenix occasionally. The hoops tourney wouldn't always be in KC, anymore. The round robin and double round robin format would go away. And I think you'd create an even more awkward situation with WVU. They'd have to market the heck out of being "West" Virginia.
                                                                                        Camel I agree that USC, UCLA, Arizona, Az St, Utah and of course Colorado would be a good fit for the Big 12. Add those to move to 16 and it would be a grand slam for the Big 12. The only thing that could make it better IMO, would be to let T.C.U. and W.V.U. head to the SEC for a presence in DFW and a bit of the Beltway and for the Big 12 to replace them with B.Y.U. and Nebraska. The Big 10 could encourage Maryland and Rutgers to head to the ACC and replace Nebraska with Virginia Tech and Notre Dame goes all in with the ACC. What I don't agree with is that the PAC would or could backfill. I would have to think at that point that Cal, Stanford, UW and Oregon would be calling the Big 10.

                                                                                        Big 12:
                                                                                        Arizona, Arizona State,Cal Los Angeles, Southern Cal
                                                                                        Brigham Young, Colorado, Texas Tech, Utah
                                                                                        Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas
                                                                                        Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska

                                                                                        Big 10:
                                                                                        California, Oregon, Stanford, Washington
                                                                                        Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
                                                                                        Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State
                                                                                        Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Virginia Tech

                                                                                        SEC:
                                                                                        Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, West Virginia
                                                                                        Auburn, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina
                                                                                        Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State
                                                                                        Arkansas, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

                                                                                        ACC:
                                                                                        Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse
                                                                                        Boston College, N.C. State, Maryland, Virginia
                                                                                        Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Wake Forest
                                                                                        Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

                                                                                        Now you are down to a much healthier 64 with fewer exceptions.

                                                                                        It's not what I would want for the SEC, but it would bring better balance to the 4 conferences as a whole. If the ACC doesn't want Rutgers then the Big 10 keeps them and the ACC keeps Virginia Tech.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by kopp0e View Post

                                                                                          FIFY:





                                                                                          It makes more sense for the top revenue earners in XII to look at raiding at least 4 to 6 PAC brands/ drop Baylor, allow WVU to (possibly) join ACC...
                                                                                          I remember Sinclair not carrying FOX in the Jackson area and people not being able to watch the NFL it didn't go well and now Nexstar is doing the same thing with the CBS affiliate WJTV I know one thing they'd better have it back up for The SEC on CBS or all hell will break loose. Luckily I'm not in that area and have CBS.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Originally posted by XLance View Post
                                                                                            Value is in the eye of the beholder. Here is Pat Forde's ranking of all 65 P5 schools by over athletic success

                                                                                            https://sports.yahoo.com/ranking-all...183430194.html

                                                                                            The Big 12 stacks up this way:

                                                                                            #6 Texas
                                                                                            #22 Oklahoma
                                                                                            #25 Oklahoma State
                                                                                            #33 Baylor
                                                                                            #42 Texas Tech
                                                                                            #46 TCU
                                                                                            #54 Iowa State
                                                                                            #55 West Virginia
                                                                                            #58 Kansas
                                                                                            #61 Kansas State
                                                                                            Anything Pat Forde says regarding Kansas should be taken with a grain of salt the size of Mt Rushmore!

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Originally posted by JRsec* View Post

                                                                                              There were a few things that left me cold about Gone With the Wind, why did Scarlet want Ashley Wilkes and why in the hell did Melanie marry him!

                                                                                              In real life, Leslie Howard was a spy behind enemy lines for the British, and was a stud in that regard. He died in service to England in '43. In the movie he was insufferable!

                                                                                              BTW: Had I read your post first I wouldn't have responded with "She's 102."
                                                                                              I have come to appreciate her work in a number of movies. GWTW is not one of them.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by XLance View Post

                                                                                                If a conference has a network, it's important for the conference to possess a wide array of good sports teams to provide enough inventory to present between January and Labor Day. Not even the SECN could survive on football game reruns.
                                                                                                Basketball takes care of January, February and early March. No matter what you do, you WILL have a lack of audience for a conference network from mid March until mid August. People do not watch other sports in large enough numbers to make a dent. The ratings for BTN and SECN can't be very good even during football season because they've NEVER been released.

                                                                                                If they can't get ratings high enough to ever be released when they are showing football (and ESPN is choosing P5 matchups that draw only a few hundred thousand viewers OVER a matchup that ends up on T3) imagine what their ratings must look like when soccer or baseball or swimming is on. It doesn't matter if they have 5,000 viewers or 0 viewers during the summer, that's not where they make their money.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Originally posted by slice1900 View Post

                                                                                                  Basketball takes care of January, February and early March. No matter what you do, you WILL have a lack of audience for a conference network from mid March until mid August. People do not watch other sports in large enough numbers to make a dent. The ratings for BTN and SECN can't be very good even during football season because they've NEVER been released.

                                                                                                  If they can't get ratings high enough to ever be released when they are showing football (and ESPN is choosing P5 matchups that draw only a few hundred thousand viewers OVER a matchup that ends up on T3) imagine what their ratings must look like when soccer or baseball or swimming is on. It doesn't matter if they have 5,000 viewers or 0 viewers during the summer, that's not where they make their money.
                                                                                                  I agree with you.... but I would very much like to see the college baseball and softball seasons shifted by about a month and ending around August 1.
                                                                                                  It would help attendance and viewership.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Originally posted by OU48A View Post

                                                                                                    I agree with you.... but I would very much like to see the college baseball and softball seasons shifted by about a month and ending around August 1.
                                                                                                    It would help attendance and viewership.
                                                                                                    I would imagine as college baseball is most popular in the south, and July is the hottest month, they want to finish before the temperature peaks.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Originally posted by slice1900 View Post

                                                                                                      Basketball takes care of January, February and early March. No matter what you do, you WILL have a lack of audience for a conference network from mid March until mid August. People do not watch other sports in large enough numbers to make a dent. The ratings for BTN and SECN can't be very good even during football season because they've NEVER been released.

                                                                                                      If they can't get ratings high enough to ever be released when they are showing football (and ESPN is choosing P5 matchups that draw only a few hundred thousand viewers OVER a matchup that ends up on T3) imagine what their ratings must look like when soccer or baseball or swimming is on. It doesn't matter if they have 5,000 viewers or 0 viewers during the summer, that's not where they make their money.
                                                                                                      SEC baseball has a decent following in late May and June which is early Summer. While not like football or baseball it isn't dead on the SECN for the whole Summer.

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