Realignment thread

[WoadBlue]

It may be the fans more so than the institution.

My son-in-law grew up in Akron, played football for the Zips. He along with the rest of his family moved to Greensboro over 20 years ago, but you just can't cleanse the Ohio State out of the whole bunch. It's a shame. They keep giving my grandchildren Ohio State t-shirts and the like...disgusting.
My son-in law's parents are great people, we see them often, but they are different, even after being here all of this time. Culture.

The problem with growth is culture clash. There are a lot of B1G graduates that have moved into the Raleigh area because of RTP. In fact there are more Catholics in Raleigh than Baptists. Weird. Sometimes change is NOT good, but it is true that familiarity breeds contempt.
Those upper mid-western people are different, not what you would refer to as genteel.

We probably can put up with the school, I'm not sure about their fans.

It is not average ND fans. It is the few big football boosters who think and act like BT football boosters. Thus they are revolting, obviously.

If you spend time with ND fans of every sport but football, you'll find a lot of people you like, most of whom clearly like the ACC and want no part of the BT ever. If you spend time with non-booster ND football fans, you'll find much the same. They despise the BT and want to part of it ever and find the ACC a good connection.

But if you spend time with ND football boosters and those they sponsor, you will find whores of the worst sort who envy Ohio ST and so would sell grandma to acquire what Ohio St has. Like Nancy Pelosi on abortion, those ND football whores invariably describe their sins as being Catholic.

[JRsec*]

You cannot manufacture history. UK-KU has not even a hint of real history. You'd have to make the states border and then have them play at least 3 times per year for 50 years for that 'rivalry' to matter in a big way.

KU-Mizzou does not matter much even with history because Mizzou has not been good enough. KU-K-St does not matter much for the same reason. KU aint worth close to what Mr Vampire Capitalist asserts. The SEC is so bereft of basketball history and loyal fans that KU would be a huge upgrade for the SEC even without having a single rivalry that matters nationally.

KU by itself would be of no value to the ACC.

Moving forward all that will matter is a national audience. Kentucky and Kansas deliver that, and not being neighbors helps. Add Duke and UNC to a scheduling format with Kansas and Kentucky and the value multiplies.

Now, the ACC drew more in hoops attendance than the SEC, but only incrementally. The ACC made a little more in hoops revenue, but only with tourney creds. The SEC which is the overwhelming leader in toal sports revenue still has tremendous upside in hoops even though they are third overall in that sport. Conversely the ACC needs football gravitas. ESPN's challenge is to keep ND around and build ACC football value. Merging the NB12 with ACC football properties does that. Adding UNC, Duke, Kansas, and UVa to the SEC for the money builds elite hoops to compliment elite football and raises the value of the NB12 and ACC schools in the new arrangement. Win/Win for the Mouse!

[XOVERX]

lol UT fans cheering for OU to win the Big 12 tells us everything we need to know.

Shouldn’t you be focusing on if you’ll host a regional while Texas and Oklahoma play for the C-ship tomorrow? Speaking of cheering for OU, we know where your precious little amphibian heart will swoon.

[hiphopfroggy]

Shouldn’t you be focusing on if you’ll host a regional while Texas and Oklahoma play for the C-ship tomorrow? Speaking of cheering for OU, we know where your precious little amphibian heart will swoon.

You cheer for OU not me. You must be torn.

[uberism]

julius = flugempire

No matter what the Big Ten TV deal contains, he will claim he was right and claim insider information. After all, when you tweet out guesses on every possible result, you have a tweet to fall back on to claim insider status.

[JRsec*]

julius = flugempire

No matter what the Big Ten TV deal contains, he will claim he was right and claim insider information. After all, when you tweet out guesses on every possible result, you have a tweet to fall back on to claim insider status.

If the SEC does hold it's own championship playoff how does that impact the Big 10 contract? Can't be good.

[uberism]

If the SEC does hold it's own championship playoff how does that impact the Big 10 contract? Can't be good.

I don't see the SEC holding it's own championship. I bet FBS breaksaway into their own division and then split again. That's basically the SEC plus top brands from all the P5 conferences going together.

[JRsec*]

I don't see the SEC holding it's own championship. I bet FBS breaksaway into their own division and then split again. That's basically the SEC plus top brands from all the P5 conferences going together.

It's being discussed. Sankey confirmed it today. When? Not as soon as addressing baseball scholarship limits and Olympic Sports scholarships (he said this Fall) for those. If we have major changes my money is on 2023.

[kopp0e]

It's being discussed. Sankey confirmed it today. When? Not as soon as addressing baseball scholarship limits and Olympic Sports scholarships (he said this Fall) for those. If we have major changes my money is on 2023.

Two good points seem to be noticed by some following realignment:

1- SEC as a whole, sits best positioned for any moves (+ OU/ UT)...



2- G5 brands, (as well as potentially some PAC/ XII/ ACC) need $..?

[XOVERX]

I'm having trouble with the Matt Hayes article. Is he suggesting that the SEC break away from the NCAA and just play SEC schools? If so, that's a bad move.

[Notre Dame Joe]

Because we're not a cultural fit. We are small and private but in reality the divide between us will continue to grow. We want access to the south for recruiting, so that has been about the only good thing. When we joined in full for a season our fan base HATED it.

I would call it a mixed bag based on the sport. ND seems to fit with the current 'culture' of 21st Century Miami as well as we were nearly at war with its 1980s gang. And we match the football mentality of Clemson and the private snootery of Duke.

But if ACC culture if defined by those midnight basketball carnivals then it will just never take in South Bend.

[JRsec*]

I'm having trouble with the Matt Hayes article. Is he suggesting that the SEC break away from the NCAA and just play SEC schools? If so, that's a bad move.

Hooey! The 16 member SEC contains the most 5* recruits within its footprint. It has by far the highest % of actual viewers compared to total possible viewers. It has 5 top 10 programs and 13 of the top 25 in total revenue generated and had even more in the COVID year of 2020-21. When the ACC is considered as an ESPN product it has 22 of the last 25 national titles in football.

No other conference has resume' to make such a move. And Mr. Squeamish, such a move is leverage. It could easily draw FSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Penn State and perhaps Iowa and Nebraska. It could easily sway ND with independent buddy USC. Not all schools need be SEC in brand. They could join the League play for themselves and everyone wins but the usual cling ons and parasites.

In other words such a move is a means to an end, and not intended to be the end!

[WoadBlue]

Hooey! The 16 member SEC contains the most 5* recruits within its footprint. It has by far the highest % of actual viewers compared to total possible viewers. It has 5 top 10 programs and 13 of the top 25 in total revenue generated and had even more in the COVID year of 2020-21. When the ACC is considered as an ESPN product it has 22 of the last 25 national titles in football.

No other conference has resume' to make such a move. And Mr. Squeamish, such a move is leverage. It could easily draw FSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Penn State and perhaps Iowa and Nebraska. It could easily sway ND with independent buddy USC. Not all schools need be SEC in brand. They could join the League play for themselves and everyone wins but the usual cling ons and parasites.

In other words such a move is a means to an end, and not intended to be the end!

It would still be the Masturbation League. For a 'breakaway' to work, it must also feature basketball and probably baseball. And that means it must be much closer to 100 teams than 48. Vampire Capitalists are as inclined to kill the goose that laid the golden egg as are actual Socialists.

[WoadBlue]

Moving forward all that will matter is a national audience. Kentucky and Kansas deliver that, and not being neighbors helps. Add Duke and UNC to a scheduling format with Kansas and Kentucky and the value multiplies.

Now, the ACC drew more in hoops attendance than the SEC, but only incrementally. The ACC made a little more in hoops revenue, but only with tourney creds. The SEC which is the overwhelming leader in toal sports revenue still has tremendous upside in hoops even though they are third overall in that sport. Conversely the ACC needs football gravitas. ESPN's challenge is to keep ND around and build ACC football value. Merging the NB12 with ACC football properties does that. Adding UNC, Duke, Kansas, and UVa to the SEC for the money builds elite hoops to compliment elite football and raises the value of the NB12 and ACC schools in the new arrangement. Win/Win for the Mouse!

You are ignoring what makes basketball matter, what makes basketball rivalries truly matter. If you do not grasp that, your moves to try to add it are certain to fail even long term.

[XOVERX]

Hooey! The 16 member SEC contains the most 5* recruits within its footprint. It has by far the highest % of actual viewers compared to total possible viewers. It has 5 top 10 programs and 13 of the top 25 in total revenue generated and had even more in the COVID year of 2020-21. When the ACC is considered as an ESPN product it has 22 of the last 25 national titles in football.

No other conference has resume' to make such a move. And Mr. Squeamish, such a move is leverage. It could easily draw FSU, Clemson, Ohio State and Penn State and perhaps Iowa and Nebraska. It could easily sway ND with independent buddy USC. Not all schools need be SEC in brand. They could join the League play for themselves and everyone wins but the usual cling ons and parasites.

In other words such a move is a means to an end, and not intended to be the end!

Squeamish or not, I think it's a big gamble: 16 schools wandering away from playing anybody else in football? Just each other? If the plan is 16 schools playing only each other and no one else - and that's what Matt Hayes suggests is under discussion - I think that's not a good plan.

I also do not think that is effective leverage, either. Also, the SEC football "playoff" would seem confining ... and redundant. Kind of like an extended regular season.

I doubt that is the plan, though. I suspect all of the B12, MW, AAC, and similar conferences would like a big paydays as SEC opponents. Plus, there's a few decent independents out there, notably ND.

Other sports would be an issue, too, if, in fact, the B1G, PAC, and ACC boycotted the SEC. Sports like track, basketball, baseball, tennis, rowing, on and on, need the whole of the college athletics.

At any rate, I suppose we will see.

[JRsec*]

It would still be the Masturbation League. For a 'breakaway' to work, it must also feature basketball and probably baseball. And that means it must be much closer to 100 teams than 48. Vampire Capitalists are as inclined to kill the goose that laid the golden egg as are actual Socialists.

No. Basketball augments a conference but isn't its organizing principle. That's what all you Carolina fans miss. If you want to capitalize your hoops so that you continue to operate at its apex, you need to do so in a high dollar football conference. The days of living on your history are soon to be gone. It's about to be a bidding war for talent and having the best war chest will be your only advantage. Jerry Maguire will be playing in your head every time the recruit says, "Show me the money!"

[JRsec*]

Squeamish or not, I think it's a big gamble: 16 schools wandering away from playing anybody else in football? Just each other? If the plan is 16 schools playing only each other and no one else - and that's what Matt Hayes suggests is under discussion - I think that's not a good plan.

I also do not think that is effective leverage, either. Also, the SEC football "playoff" would seem confining ... and redundant. Kind of like an extended regular season.

I doubt that is the plan, though. I suspect all of the B12, MW, AAC, and similar conferences would like a big paydays as SEC opponents. Plus, there's a few decent independents out there, notably ND.

Other sports would be an issue, too, if, in fact, the B1G, PAC, and ACC boycotted the SEC. Sports like track, basketball, baseball, tennis, rowing, on and on, need the whole of the college athletics.

At any rate, I suppose we will see.

No G5's. ACC, New B12 and SEC schools with ND & USC if the play among those 3 conferences and each other. There's your playoff. I wish people would quit reading beat writers and bloggers. There hasn't been a damn one of them right about anything. They get info the conferences want released, and the real puppet masters, the networks, don't leak much if anything.

At 16 the SEC would add conference semi finals for the CCG (another 60 million). To hold a playoff it very likely will conform to ESPN wishes (their money). The SEC will sponsor it, but they would draw from a larger pool by invitation.

Face it, football participation at pee wee, jr high and high school levels is down everywhere, just less so in the SE & SW. It's a regional sport already.

[XOVERX]

No G5's. ACC, New B12 and SEC schools with ND & USC if the play among those 3 conferences and each other. There's your playoff. I wish people would quit reading beat writers and bloggers. There hasn't been a damn one of them right about anything. They get info the conferences want released, and the real puppet masters, the networks, don't leak much if anything.

At 16 the SEC would add conference semi finals for the CCG (another 60 million). To hold a playoff it very likely will conform to ESPN wishes (their money). The SEC will sponsor it, but they would draw from a larger pool by invitation.

Face it, football participation at pee wee, jr high and high school levels is down everywhere, just less so in the SE & SW. It's a regional sport already.

You mean, no B1G, right? Because the B12 is, at best, after July 1, 2025 (or whenever), a G5 conference. B12 schools will be lucky to make $25M per school per season after Texas and Oklahoma leave. That's G5 money.

But yeah, I suspect SEC-NCAA "alliances" will emerge if the SEC withdraws from the NCAA. By "NCAA alliance", I mean B1G. What I do not see happening is the SEC finishing the regular season, playing a couple of post-season games, and trying to pass off those post-season games as a "playoff". That would be unhappy, IMO.

So, the P2 .- the SEC and the B1G - would be the mass around which the ACC and PAC would have to decide. Will their champions play in the SEC playoff system or in the B1G playoff system?

Based on last summer, we know Sankey wants a 12-school playoff. We don't know what B1G wants since the B1G began to pout after the SEC expanded. The B1G's playoff size is a mystery

If the SEC and B1G split - the SEC in its own association and the B1G in the NCAA - then, obviously, each playoff system would open their playoffs to the ACC and the PAC. It would seem the B1G has an advantage with the ACC and PAC, based on last summer's "alliance" talk.

"Alliances", however, will again become the watchword as both the SEC and B1G would enter negotiations to lure the ACC and/or the PAC into its playoff orbit. I don't think the luring would be limited to the ACC and PAC, though, since two separate and competing playoff systems would seem to require many participants, depending on the size of each playoff system. Therefore, I suspect each playoff system would seek to form alliances with all G5 conferences.

For example, I agree with you that both the SEC and B1G would recruit the B12 champion to enter its respective playoff alliance. To repeat, the SEC and B1G will also likely reach out to other G5 leagues to align with their respective playoffs. Perhaps each format would seek to lure G5s with automatic bids, or, more likely, by depending on their ranking at the end of the season.

JMO. Breaking away from the NCAA would be complicated, I think, given competing playoffs.

Football is regional? Is it? I don't get around much, but where I live in Texas, football at all levels is discussed constantly, year-round.

[JRsec*]

You mean, no B1G, right? Because the B12 is, at best, after July 1, 2025 (or whenever), a G5 conference. B12 schools will be lucky to make $25M per school per season after Texas and Oklahoma leave. That's G5 money.

But yeah, I suspect SEC-NCAA "alliances" will emerge if the SEC withdraws from the NCAA. By "NCAA alliance", I mean B1G. What I do not see happening is the SEC finishing the regular season, playing a couple of post-season games, and trying to pass off those post-season games as a "playoff". That would be unhappy, IMO.

So, the P2 .- the SEC and the B1G - would be the mass around which the ACC and PAC would have to decide. Will their champions play in the SEC playoff system or in the B1G playoff system?

Based on last summer, we know Sankey wants a 12-school playoff. We don't know what B1G wants since the B1G began to pout after the SEC expanded. The B1G's playoff size is a mystery

If the SEC and B1G split - the SEC in its own association and the B1G in the NCAA - then, obviously, each playoff system would open their playoffs to the ACC and the PAC. It would seem the B1G has an advantage with the ACC and PAC, based on last summer's "alliance" talk.

"Alliances", however, will again become the watchword as both the SEC and B1G would enter negotiations to lure the ACC and/or the PAC into its playoff orbit. I don't think the luring would be limited to the ACC and PAC, though, since two separate and competing playoff systems would seem to require many participants, depending on the size of each playoff system. Therefore, I suspect each playoff system would seek to form alliances with all G5 conferences.

For example, I agree with you that both the SEC and B1G would recruit the B12 champion to enter its respective playoff alliance. To repeat, the SEC and B1G will also likely reach out to other G5 leagues to align with their respective playoffs. Perhaps each format would seek to lure G5s with automatic bids, or, more likely, by depending on their ranking at the end of the season.

JMO. Breaking away from the NCAA would be complicated, I think, given competing playoffs.

Football is regional? Is it? I don't get around much, but where I live in Texas, football at all levels is discussed constantly, year-round.

Seriously??? It'll break down by network obligation. B12 and ACC will be with ESPN. And to monetize hoops you have to breakaway from the socialist bureaucrats of the NCAA which is now pointless in an NIL and Pay for Play world. The NCAA is bloated, corrupt, ineffectual and they sit on 2 endowments totaling over a billion dollars and they add 70 million plus a year to it out of Tourney proceeds. The tourney paid them 1.1 billion last year. The NCAA pays out 129 credits at $2.5m each which is 322,5m from 1.1 billion. That leaves 777.5 million of which 70 million goes to endowments and the rest rolls into an account which pays the rest of the credits 5 years in arears. That's a helluva nice shell game they get to run. We should be so blessed!

[XLance]

Seriously??? It'll break down by network obligation. B12 and ACC will be with ESPN. And to monetize hoops you have to breakaway from the socialist bureaucrats of the NCAA which is now pointless in an NIL and Pay for Play world. The NCAA is bloated, corrupt, ineffectual and they sit on 2 endowments totaling over a billion dollars and they add 70 million plus a year to it out of Tourney proceeds. The tourney paid them 1.1 billion last year. The NCAA pays out 129 credits at $2.5m each which is 322,5m from 1.1 billion. That leaves 777.5 million of which 70 million goes to endowments and the rest rolls into an account which pays the rest of the credits 5 years in arears. That's a helluva nice shell game they get to run. We should be so blessed!

Well we know that the ACC is obligated to ESPN. The Big 12, after 2025, is unknown.

[JRsec*]

Well we know that the ACC is obligated to ESPN. The Big 12, after 2025, is unknown.

For now, yes. It will be known however shorty after the B1G deal is finalized, especially depending upon whether ESPN goes all in on B12 rights, which I suspect they will.

[XLance]

For now, yes. It will be known however shorty after the B1G deal is finalized, especially depending upon whether ESPN goes all in on B12 rights, which I suspect they will.

Perhaps.
With over 50% of the league's value gone, it's going to e interesting to see if ESPN really wants to invest further in the Big 12 as a P level conference or try to drop them down to the G level.
If Kansas and West Virginia are slated to move to other conferences, the remains of the Big 12 will have become the newest version of the AAC. ESPN may hold their rights, but at a reduced rate similar to what the AAC is earning now.

[John Swofford]

Perhaps.
With over 50% of the league's value gone, it's going to e interesting to see if ESPN really wants to invest further in the Big 12 as a P level conference or try to drop them down to the G level.
If Kansas and West Virginia are slated to move to other conferences, the remains of the Big 12 will have become the newest version of the AAC. ESPN may hold their rights, but at a reduced rate similar to what the AAC is earning now.

This is why I keep saying the plan all along was for ESPN to move the XII properties they care about into the SEC and ACC. OU and Tex moving to the SEC was leaked and threw a wrench into the whole plan....but only temporarily.

I still believe WVU and someone in Texas (Baylor?) is bound for the ACC when the XII is handed their discounted TV package.

[WoadBlue]

This is why I keep saying the plan all along was for ESPN to move the XII properties they care about into the SEC and ACC. OU and Tex moving to the SEC was leaked and threw a wrench into the whole plan....but only temporarily.

I still believe WVU and someone in Texas (Baylor?) is bound for the ACC when the XII is handed their discounted TV package.

If you (and it works the same if 'you' is a conference or a network) have both Texas and A&M, then you have TX. If you add to that having also OU and Arkansas and LSU, which all have massive numbers of fans in TX, you own the state totally. A rival network or league could gain value, eve much value from having TTU and/or TCU and/or Baylor. But 'you' can gain nothing by adding them. The Pac needsTX and even Ok St. The BT needs TX almost as much as the Pac does. ESPN has no such need. ESPN does need to be in OH. OH is as close as the midwest gets to having a TX; it is very close to GA in terms of both talent produced and numbers of fans who watch CFB passionately. The ACC could use WVU because WVU fans are fierce and inspire opposition. WVU fans get blood boiling, which draws more fans.

[WoadBlue]

No. Basketball augments a conference but isn't its organizing principle. That's what all you Carolina fans miss. If you want to capitalize your hoops so that you continue to operate at its apex, you need to do so in a high dollar football conference. The days of living on your history are soon to be gone. It's about to be a bidding war for talent and having the best war chest will be your only advantage. Jerry Maguire will be playing in your head every time the recruit says, "Show me the money!"

I know how much less CBB is worth than CFB. I am talking about a break away working, which will require more than football. And both basketball and baseball will require more than the minimal 40 or 50 schools that could make a football breakaway work. Super greed cannot see that and so cuts off its nose to spite its own face while informing everyone only it sees the big picture.

[JRsec*]

I know how much less CBB is worth than CFB. I am talking about a break away working, which will require more than football. And both basketball and baseball will require more than the minimal 40 or 50 schools that could make a football breakaway work. Super greed cannot see that and so cuts off its nose to spite its own face while informing everyone only it sees the big picture.

Woad, as a breakaway happens you will have conferences which play both formed and conferences which play all sports but football. The former will pay a lot more. Your choice! I'll bet Mack Brown and UNC would like a lot more. Hoops won't be just P5 football participants. I should think baseball will be much broader as well.

[John Swofford]

If you (and it works the same if 'you' is a conference or a network) have both Texas and A&M, then you have TX. If you add to that having also OU and Arkansas and LSU, which all have massive numbers of fans in TX, you own the state totally. A rival network or league could gain value, eve much value from having TTU and/or TCU and/or Baylor. But 'you' can gain nothing by adding them. The Pac needsTX and even Ok St. The BT needs TX almost as much as the Pac does. ESPN has no such need. ESPN does need to be in OH. OH is as close as the midwest gets to having a TX; it is very close to GA in terms of both talent produced and numbers of fans who watch CFB passionately. The ACC could use WVU because WVU fans are fierce and inspire opposition. WVU fans get blood boiling, which draws more fans.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Cincy over anyone in Texas for the reasons you mentioned. But the ACCN in Texas would net more coin than having it in OH. If Cincy was so valuable, they would have already been in a P5 by now, IMO.

Having Cincy and WVU would certainly improve things up north of Va.

[hank970]

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Cincy over anyone in Texas for the reasons you mentioned. But the ACCN in Texas would net more coin than having it in OH. If Cincy was so valuable, they would have already been in a P5 by now, IMO.

Having Cincy and WVU would certainly improve things up north of Va.

Yeah, and if printed circuits were so valuable, they'd have been invented in the early 1900s.

[XOVERX]

Perhaps.
With over 50% of the league's value gone, it's going to e interesting to see if ESPN really wants to invest further in the Big 12 as a P level conference or try to drop them down to the G level.
If Kansas and West Virginia are slated to move to other conferences, the remains of the Big 12 will have become the newest version of the AAC. ESPN may hold their rights, but at a reduced rate similar to what the AAC is earning now.

The value lost to the B12 is close to 75% after Texas and Oklahoma are gone. BYU backfills a small amount to the B12, but oh brother are they hard to live with.

Cincy, UCF, and Houston are financial takers, at least for the foreseeable future. Overall, while the additions to the B12 are emotionally “exciting” to the league, in the end they are anchors.

[XOVERX]

Seriously??? It'll break down by network obligation. B12 and ACC will be with ESPN. And to monetize hoops you have to breakaway from the socialist bureaucrats of the NCAA which is now pointless in an NIL and Pay for Play world. The NCAA is bloated, corrupt, ineffectual and they sit on 2 endowments totaling over a billion dollars and they add 70 million plus a year to it out of Tourney proceeds. The tourney paid them 1.1 billion last year. The NCAA pays out 129 credits at $2.5m each which is 322,5m from 1.1 billion. That leaves 777.5 million of which 70 million goes to endowments and the rest rolls into an account which pays the rest of the credits 5 years in arears. That's a helluva nice shell game they get to run. We should be so blessed!

On the one hand, there are great opportunities in a breakaway from the NCAA. On the other hand, there is the uncertainty of leaving the NCAA.

The SEC has gotten to where it is today under the umbrella of the NCAA. While the “lost” money from the basketball tournament is interesting, the question is not making money from basketball, the question is how will a breakaway affect football.

If a breakaway means the SEC football playoff is comprised solely of SEC schools, I see that as a negative.

I’m open to an NCAA breakaway depending on what it means for football. I think such a move has to be made carefully, and, most likely, with the neutrality, or at least cooperation, with other leagues, especially viz-a-viz a football playoff structure that actually appears to resemble a “playoff “.

[JRsec*]

On the one hand, there are great opportunities in a breakaway from the NCAA. On the other hand, there is the uncertainty of leaving the NCAA.

The SEC has gotten to where it is today under the umbrella of the NCAA. While the “lost” money from the basketball tournament is interesting, the question is not making money from basketball, the question is how will a breakaway affect football.

If a breakaway means the SEC football playoff is comprised solely of SEC schools, I see that as a negative.

I’m open to an NCAA breakaway depending on what it means for football. I think such a move has to be made carefully, and, most likely, with the neutrality, or at least cooperation, with other leagues, especially viz-a-viz a football playoff structure that actually appears to resemble a “playoff “.

Sankey put the ball in the alliance's court yesterday. He said he was willing to discuss an 8 team playoff (what the ACC requested) but with no automatic qualifiers (what the B1G and PAC wants). Well if accepted the SEC will benefit from more at large selections. If it is rejected we have just cause to break away. If the SEC breaks away they have at least 2 solid options. Use ESPN's contracted family and stage our own playoff with invitations issued to at large schools from other conferences (owning the playoff is like owning bowls). Entrants will earn a set payout and the SEC/ESPN splits the rest of the proceeds. It's a business. A rejection of the offer creates legal room to establish our own and the SCOTUS came down on the NCAA in 1983 for restriction of trade and will again over the basketball tourney.

The playing totally against other SEC schools is just the usual bullshit hysterics that gets spewed prior to substantive change and usually by academics who know nothing about business and simply want a paycheck for little effort.

The world changed with OU/UGa vs the NCAA and changed again with Alston. There's another ruling coming on pay for play. How will the SCOTUS decide that? Well Cavanaugh has already encouraged players unions for collective bargaining so..........

[HouClone]

The value lost to the B12 is close to 75% after Texas and Oklahoma are gone. BYU backfills a small amount to the B12, but oh brother are they hard to live with.

Cincy, UCF, and Houston are financial takers, at least for the foreseeable future. Overall, while the additions to the B12 are emotionally “exciting” to the league, in the end they are anchors.

Who is going to be harder to live with - BYU, OK, or UT? BYU - like UT, has pushed others around and felt superior. OK - led by years by a guy who belittled the conference and fans followed suit. UT - See BYU times 100. The killer of conferences. At least now with the New Big 12, though no bluebloods and less money, the teams won't be walking on eggshells and will be working together for the good of the conference.

[HouClone]

Sankey put the ball in the alliance's court yesterday. He said he was willing to discuss an 8 team playoff (what the ACC requested) but with no automatic qualifiers (what the B1G and PAC wants). Well if accepted the SEC will benefit from more at large selections. If it is rejected we have just cause to break away. If the SEC breaks away they have at least 2 solid options. Use ESPN's contracted family and stage our own playoff with invitations issued to at large schools from other conferences (owning the playoff is like owning bowls). Entrants will earn a set payout and the SEC/ESPN splits the rest of the proceeds. It's a business. A rejection of the offer creates legal room to establish our own and the SCOTUS came down on the NCAA in 1983 for restriction of trade and will again over the basketball tourney.

The playing totally against other SEC schools is just the usual bullshit hysterics that gets spewed prior to substantive change and usually by academics who know nothing about business and simply want a paycheck for little effort.

The world changed with OU/UGa vs the NCAA and changed again with Alston. There's another ruling coming on pay for play. How will the SCOTUS decide that? Well Cavanaugh has already encouraged players unions for collective bargaining so..........

Should be automatic qualifiers. There is not enough comparison data and eye test, biases, and non on-the field issues will be heavily weighted. ESPN (vested interest in ACC and SEC) talking heads will be clamoring for 5 SEC teams including a team that goes 8-4. No thanks. "Look at all the 5 star recruits Georgia's got." "There is a reason the SEC has the most NFL picks." "SEC just has so much bigger guys than others."

[FtwTxSooner]

Should be automatic qualifiers. There is not enough comparison data and eye test, biases, and non on-the field issues will be heavily weighted. ESPN (vested interest in ACC and SEC) talking heads will be clamoring for 5 SEC teams including a team that goes 8-4. No thanks. "Look at all the 5 star recruits Georgia's got." "There is a reason the SEC has the most NFL picks." "SEC just has so much bigger guys than others."

If there are 12 teams, no amount of bias can keep a deserving conference champion out at that point, with "deserving" meaning a team that has a legitimate shot at a championship, versus struggling to even break the top 10.

[Deadeye]

Should be automatic qualifiers.

Like the NFL?

There is not enough comparison data and eye test, biases, and non on-the field issues will be heavily weighted.

You are railing against the entire history of college football.

ESPN (vested interest in ACC and SEC) talking heads will be clamoring for 5 SEC teams including a team that goes 8-4. No thanks. "Look at all the 5 star recruits Georgia's got." "There is a reason the SEC has the most NFL picks." "SEC just has so much bigger guys than others."

Going back to the BCS, the SEC has had three teams not win the conference, and then proceed to win the national championship. That argues in favor of allowing non-conference champions into the playoff.

[XLance]

Sankey put the ball in the alliance's court yesterday. He said he was willing to discuss an 8 team playoff (what the ACC requested) but with no automatic qualifiers (what the B1G and PAC wants). Well if accepted the SEC will benefit from more at large selections. If it is rejected we have just cause to break away. If the SEC breaks away they have at least 2 solid options. Use ESPN's contracted family and stage our own playoff with invitations issued to at large schools from other conferences (owning the playoff is like owning bowls). Entrants will earn a set payout and the SEC/ESPN splits the rest of the proceeds. It's a business. A rejection of the offer creates legal room to establish our own and the SCOTUS came down on the NCAA in 1983 for restriction of trade and will again over the basketball tourney.

The playing totally against other SEC schools is just the usual bullshit hysterics that gets spewed prior to substantive change and usually by academics who know nothing about business and simply want a paycheck for little effort.

The world changed with OU/UGa vs the NCAA and changed again with Alston. There's another ruling coming on pay for play. How will the SCOTUS decide that? Well Cavanaugh has already encouraged players unions for collective bargaining so..........

That's not just cause for anything.......it just means that you go back and start talking again to be able to come to a consensus on a path forward.

[kopp0e]

On the one hand, there are great opportunities in a breakaway from the NCAA. On the other hand, there is the uncertainty of leaving the NCAA.

The SEC has gotten to where it is today under the umbrella of the NCAA. While the “lost” money from the basketball tournament is interesting, the question is not making money from basketball, the question is how will a breakaway affect football.

If a breakaway means the SEC football playoff is comprised solely of SEC schools, I see that as a negative.

I’m open to an NCAA breakaway depending on what it means for football. I think such a move has to be made carefully, and, most likely, with the neutrality, or at least cooperation, with other leagues, especially viz-a-viz a football playoff structure that actually appears to resemble a “playoff “.

Hmm, could PAC (& USC/ Oregon, ect) align with SEC in near future on tv deal..?
That may hold true, especially if ESPN locks in PAC & distribution of PACN also.?

This is why I keep saying the plan all along was for ESPN to move the XII properties they care about into the SEC and ACC. OU and Tex moving to the SEC was leaked and threw a wrench into the whole plan....but only temporarily.

I still believe WVU and someone in Texas (Baylor?) is bound for the ACC when the XII is handed their discounted TV package.

ACC picks up Cincy/ WVU, while PAC adds Kansas/ Texas Tech/ TCU/ Houston...
*(I suppose ACC could swap for Baylor/ PAC could swap for Oklahoma State eh)..?

[XLance]

Hmm, could PAC (& USC/ Oregon, ect) align with SEC in near future on tv deal..?
That may hold true, especially if ESPN locks in PAC & distribution of PACN also.?



ACC picks up Cincy/ WVU, while PAC adds Kansas/ Texas Tech/ TCU/ Houston...
*(I suppose ACC could swap for Baylor/ PAC could swap for Oklahoma State eh)..?

Already on tap for this season:
West Virginia at Pitt and
West Virginia at Virginia Tech

2023
Cincinnati at Pitt
Cincinnati at NC State

[JRsec*]

That's not just cause for anything.......it just means that you go back and start talking again to be able to come to a consensus on a path forward.

Nope. It means we gave the obligatory option to the piss and moan crowd and then the SEC acts in its own self interests.

[John Swofford]

Hmm, could PAC (& USC/ Oregon, ect) align with SEC in near future on tv deal..?
That may hold true, especially if ESPN locks in PAC & distribution of PACN also.?



ACC picks up Cincy/ WVU, while PAC adds Kansas/ Texas Tech/ TCU/ Houston...
*(I suppose ACC could swap for Baylor/ PAC could swap for Oklahoma State eh)..?

This guy is nuts if he thinks ESPN would put money into the PAC over a property with which it already co-owns a network. It would make more sense, as I've been saying, to move some XII properties into the ACC just as the mouse did with OU/TX into the SEC.

[HouClone]

Like the NFL?

You are railing against the entire history of college football.

Going back to the BCS, the SEC has had three teams not win the conference, and then proceed to win the national championship. That argues in favor of allowing non-conference champions into the playoff.

Fair enough on the 3 teams you mentioned. The system was flawed pre-BCS, BCS, and now current. With 8 teams, there is still 2 or 3 at large which will be an evaluation with biases as usual. But you at least know about the other 5 or 6. Plus, with divisions going away, you won't have a 7-5 Northwestern vying for the spot.

[OrangeBeachBum68]

Power 5 -- Top 15 Gross revenue 2018 fiscal year
1. Texas -- $156 million
2. Georgia -- $123 million
3. Michigan -- $122 million
4. Notre Dame -- $116 million
5. Ohio State -- $115 million
6. Penn State -- $100 million
7. Auburn -- $95 million
8. Oklahoma -- $94.8 million
9. Alabama -- $94.6 million
10. Nebraska -- $94.3 million
11. LSU -- $92 million
12. Tennessee -- $91 million
13. Wisconsin -- $90 million
14. Florida -- $85 million
15. Washington -- $84 million

See a pattern? 8 of the 15 will very soon be in the SEC. Greg Sankey can do whatever he wants to do, but I think most of what is being said recently is mostly posturing on his part to whip the votes from the other commissioners needed to get to a 12 team playoff--NOT blow up the NCAA. That being said, IF he did want to 'pick up his ball and go home' and form a new league altogether, I think the power is in his hands to do it.

[WoadBlue]

Hmm, could PAC (& USC/ Oregon, ect) align with SEC in near future on tv deal..?
That may hold true, especially if ESPN locks in PAC & distribution of PACN also.?



ACC picks up Cincy/ WVU, while PAC adds Kansas/ Texas Tech/ TCU/ Houston...
*(I suppose ACC could swap for Baylor/ PAC could swap for Oklahoma State eh)..?

The Pac desperately needs schools located in Central Standard Time. The numbers of people in Pacific Time who watch college sports regularly has been dropping for 50 straight years. The problem is that the Pac leadership refuses to face facts because it is ride or die with Left Coast bias against Middle America. ESPN would achieve more by making the Big XII a 'western league' than by tying to pay the Pac to expand into Plains redneck country. The 'western' Big XII could outdraw the Pac. That means adding Boise St and probably San Diego St and Fresno St. It means offering to take UA and AZ St and Utah once they face facts. It means wooing SC.

[JRsec*]

Power 5 -- Top 15 Gross revenue 2018 fiscal year
1. Texas -- $156 million
2. Georgia -- $123 million
3. Michigan -- $122 million
4. Notre Dame -- $116 million
5. Ohio State -- $115 million
6. Penn State -- $100 million
7. Auburn -- $95 million
8. Oklahoma -- $94.8 million
9. Alabama -- $94.6 million
10. Nebraska -- $94.3 million
11. LSU -- $92 million
12. Tennessee -- $91 million
13. Wisconsin -- $90 million
14. Florida -- $85 million
15. Washington -- $84 million

See a pattern? 8 of the 15 will very soon be in the SEC. Greg Sankey can do whatever he wants to do, but I think most of what is being said recently is mostly posturing on his part to whip the votes from the other commissioners needed to get to a 12 team playoff--NOT blow up the NCAA. That being said, IF he did want to 'pick up his ball and go home' and form a new league altogether, I think the power is in his hands to do it.

Look at the 2020-1 numbers I posted up thread (last page back I think). The SEC would have 6 of the top 10 and 13 of the top 25.

[slice1900]

That's not quite a feasible scenario, because sometimes Notre Dame would be NBC's night game - though I suppose they'd swap the 3pm CBS game and the 7pm NBC game in that scenario. They might need a little flexibility to

That would be an interesting scenario though because if it was three network games plus BTN for the rest they could essentially begin the process of "cutting the cord" from the other end if they offered streaming subscriptions for BTN that included content on the cable channel BTN (currently the "BTN plus" subscription only covers stuff that isn't shown on the cable channel BTN) A cord cutter could watch all Big Ten football games, at least until the bowl season.

Not sure how much that's worth because being able to watch Big Ten football after cutting the cord is fine and all, but if you are a fan of any other sports you will still need your cable TV subscription. But it would put them first on the path for where things are eventually going I suppose.

ESPN is going to be the last holdout to offer its cable channel content via streaming, because they make too much money being able to charge pretty much every cable TV subscriber for their channel 12 months a year. The "Red Sox channel" streaming pricing shows where things will be going when cable sports channels are forced to cut the cord, and it won't be pretty for sports fans' pocketbooks!

[slice1900]

FYI it might be worthwhile to keep an eye on the news coming out of Apple's developer conference next week, even if you aren't an Apple user. Rumor has it they have some sort of a big announcement related to streaming. If they have made a deal for NFL Sunday Ticket, or any piece of the Big Ten rights, that's probably where they would want to announce it.

[Win5002]

That's not quite a feasible scenario, because sometimes Notre Dame would be NBC's night game - though I suppose they'd swap the 3pm CBS game and the 7pm NBC game in that scenario. They might need a little flexibility to

That would be an interesting scenario though because if it was three network games plus BTN for the rest they could essentially begin the process of "cutting the cord" from the other end if they offered streaming subscriptions for BTN that included content on the cable channel BTN (currently the "BTN plus" subscription only covers stuff that isn't shown on the cable channel BTN) A cord cutter could watch all Big Ten football games, at least until the bowl season.

Not sure how much that's worth because being able to watch Big Ten football after cutting the cord is fine and all, but if you are a fan of any other sports you will still need your cable TV subscription. But it would put them first on the path for where things are eventually going I suppose.

ESPN is going to be the last holdout to offer its cable channel content via streaming, because they make too much money being able to charge pretty much every cable TV subscriber for their channel 12 months a year. The "Red Sox channel" streaming pricing shows where things will be going when cable sports channels are forced to cut the cord, and it won't be pretty for sports fans' pocketbooks!

I saw your message and for $30 a month a person can buy both the MLB ticket and NHL ticket and get every out of market game in both leagues for that price. Its hard to see that getting traction.

The only thing about the sports network out of Boston is I believe they do 4k content for all Red Sox home games and that is a big selling point. But if a person bought the MLB ticket through Directv out of market subscribers would get access to the 4K content so I don't know why someone would subscribe to the Red Sox channel for $30. I know the Dodgers and White Sox have some 4K also on Directv.

4K is a big improvement. I don't know why Directv doesn't market more about quality than low cost, market to people that will pay more especially if more 4K is expanded.

[slice1900]

I saw your message and for $30 a month a person can buy both the MLB ticket and NHL ticket and get every out of market game in both leagues for that price. Its hard to see that getting traction.

The only thing about the sports network out of Boston is I believe they do 4k content for all Red Sox home games and that is a big selling point. But if a person bought the MLB ticket through Directv out of market subscribers would get access to the 4K content so I don't know why someone would subscribe to the Red Sox channel for $30. I know the Dodgers and White Sox have some 4K also on Directv.

4K is a big improvement. I don't know why Directv doesn't market more about quality than low cost, market to people that will pay more especially if more 4K is expanded.

The people paying $30/month for the Red Sox channel would be in market customers who can't legally watch it any other way. I agree that it is an iffy proposition, but if they can't get prices like that they will lose all that money they are getting from RSN fees as more people cut the cord. Fans of teams outside the market in which they live have always been better served than fans of local teams, who have to deal with blackouts and high priced exclusive deals.

Directv's 4K is great, but there isn't enough of it to effectively market, and they don't have control over the pace of adopting 4K for more events. Directv has a ton of bandwidth available to broadcast 4K - they could easily carry 50 24x7 4K channels if they existed. But it looks like we may never see even one full time 4K channel. ATSC 3.0 which will allow for 4K for TV broadcasts looks to be used to increase the number of channels, add pay content etc. so it doesn't look good for 4K broadcasts from the big 4 networks either.

[Deadeye]

Fair enough on the 3 teams you mentioned. The system was flawed pre-BCS, BCS, and now current. With 8 teams, there is still 2 or 3 at large which will be an evaluation with biases as usual. But you at least know about the other 5 or 6. Plus, with divisions going away, you won't have a 7-5 Northwestern vying for the spot.

I don't have a problem with automatic qualifiers. But I think it's funny that the 12 team playoff was trashed when the UT/OU news broke last summer. Well, automatic qualifiers were going to be a big part of that set up.

[HouClone]

I don't have a problem with automatic qualifiers. But I think it's funny that the 12 team playoff was trashed when the UT/OU news broke last summer. Well, automatic qualifiers were going to be a big part of that set up.

It was trashed because Sankey was on the committee where perception is that he may have helped steer the committee, right or wrong no one knows except the committee members, to 12 games to help sway OU and UT to join a 16 team conference where there are 6 at large spots. I think 12 is the way to go but don't blame others for not trusting Sankey. I wish a reporter would directly ask Sankey, Castiglione, or Del Conte if there was any discussion among the three if the CFP size was discussed during the SEC invite discussions. And if so, if there was a certain size to leave the Big 12. "Joe, if you knew 18 months ago that the CFP was never going to expand for at least 10 years, would OU have put in their notice this past Summer to leave the Big 12?". I am sure we will never know the truth of all of this for at least 50 years though.