Realignment thread

[camel at sea]

As you are an attorney, I know you understand what pretext is.

^It's alright to just say "I hate the big 12." You're not alone. But saying it's been minor league for 10 years is dumb. You're either defining "major league" extremely narrowly or you're defining it with no consistency. You seem to know that though.

OU is moving to a better conference - but it doesn't make the one we've been in the minors.

[keef]

Looking like we're getting Texas, Mizzou, and Arkansas as permanent rivals.

Arkansas surprises me, since there's little-to-no history, especially compared to A&M. However, it's a good strategic move if you want to kneecap the Pokes in Tulsa.

I'd have been surprised if it ended up any other way.


It's "afternoon" where is the announcement that the 4 corners are big 12 bound officially?

[ekeithly]

^It's alright to just say "I hate the big 12." You're not alone. But saying it's been minor league for 10 years is dumb. You're either defining "major league" extremely narrowly or you're defining it with no consistency. You seem to know that though.

OU is moving to a better conference - but it doesn't make the one we've been in the minors.

I actually agree with both of you on this. I think B12 OU/UT was treated like major league, but when its not OU/UT then the BigXII was weak. It's very soft jab that everybody outside of OU/UT wasn't at the same level. If OU and UT couldn't top the league then boy the league as whole must not be good. It never gave credit to the schools doing well.

We saw how TCU and Baylor got treated with 1 loss (and there were circumstances that year), but I could never foresee a situation where a 1 loss UT or OU get left out of the CFP.

And yet the league had access to NY6 and had considerations for CFP access, but I think that access was because OU and UT were there to lend credence to the opponents the other teams were playing. 'Oh you beat OU? I guess that's good enough for NY6. But I mean OU was in down year, and you have 1 loss not sure that qualifies as CFP material.' With OU it's more like 'OH 1 loss...ehh...well I guess there is room to slip up, and we'll you probably a bigger brand than whasington state. Sure we will let you in.'

[Bryanw1995]

Looking like we're getting Texas, Mizzou, and Arkansas as permanent rivals.

Arkansas surprises me, since there's little-to-no history, especially compared to A&M. However, it's a good strategic move if you want to kneecap the Pokes in Tulsa.

I'd rather have Arkansas than Ms State for A&M, but tu and LSU would be far and away my top 2 so the 3rd isn't really that important.

^It's alright to just say "I hate the big 12." You're not alone. But saying it's been minor league for 10 years is dumb. You're either defining "major league" extremely narrowly or you're defining it with no consistency. You seem to know that though.

OU is moving to a better conference - but it doesn't make the one we've been in the minors.

It's clearly been superior to the Pac12, and the only reason it hasn't been better than the ACC is that Dabo has had Clemson hitting on all cylinders.

[XLance]

You know a ninja was a professional assassin for hire. He may be a ninja. He sure as hell looks like he's trying to kill the ACC. Swofford was only part ninja, he worked for hire.

Sometimes we're not really sure who Phillips is working for.

[FoCoSooner]

I am going to change the subject because I know I am wrong.

You asked a question of why the Big 12 was junior varsity.

I gave you my answer.
Being the only P-5 with no playoff win and the only P-5 to not even play for a NC in the last decade.

Now the Big 12 is the only P-5 with out a single 5 star player once OU and UT leave.

Hard to claim that conference is playing at the same level as the others who are winning playoff games, playing for NC's, and have elite talent.

The Big 12 is a great BB conference, but FB strength is simply not there for competing at the highest level with elite talent.



And you had no response. lol

Makes it obvious you know I am right, so you change the subject.

[FoCoSooner]

^It's alright to just say "I hate the big 12." You're not alone. But saying it's been minor league for 10 years is dumb. You're either defining "major league" extremely narrowly or you're defining it with no consistency. You seem to know that though.

OU is moving to a better conference - but it doesn't make the one we've been in the minors.

Yes it does.

There are only 6 conference who have not played for a NC in the last decade. Big 12 is one of them, along with the AAC, MW, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC.


Only 4 conference have played for a NC.


Has nothing to do with hate, has to do with facts.


The new version of the Big 12 is most certainly minor league and nobody has elite talent or the ability to win a NC.

[keef]

Yes it does.

There are only 6 conference who have not played for a NC in the last decade. Big 12 is one of them, along with the AAC, MW, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC.


Only 4 conference have played for a NC.


Has nothing to do with hate, has to do with facts.


The new version of the Big 12 is most certainly minor league and nobody has elite talent or the ability to win a NC.

There's maybe 6 teams with elite talent enough to win the NC.


6 teams in all of college football, I mean.

[slice1900]

That is not really close to accurate. What that would be would be a "specific performance" remedy, where a court orders one party to perform to a contract they breached. When a dollar value of the breach can be established, like in this case, courts never order that as its difficult to manage. Clemson can go to the B1G next season if they so desire and the B1G invites them. FOX would be the ones on campus producing their games, and Clemson would be out the exit fee, and whatever else the court determines the actual damages are. Its those damages that are the shackles. The logistics of who produces those games isn't an issue.

That's not what I've read, and according people who are lawyers with experience in intellectual property. I'll see if I can find the link, but it was a few days ago I saw it.

Specific performance refers to actions in the future, an example would be "if Notre Dame joins a conference it must be the ACC". A court won't force them to join the ACC, so damages would be determined instead.

The grants of rights happened in 2016, no specific performance is required for something that has already occurred.

[camel at sea]

I actually agree with both of you on this. I think B12 OU/UT was treated like major league, but when its not OU/UT then the BigXII was weak. It's very soft jab that everybody outside of OU/UT wasn't at the same level. If OU and UT couldn't top the league then boy the league as whole must not be good. It never gave credit to the schools doing well.

We saw how TCU and Baylor got treated with 1 loss (and there were circumstances that year), but I could never foresee a situation where a 1 loss UT or OU get left out of the CFP.

And yet the league had access to NY6 and had considerations for CFP access, but I think that access was because OU and UT were there to lend credence to the opponents the other teams were playing. 'Oh you beat OU? I guess that's good enough for NY6. But I mean OU was in down year, and you have 1 loss not sure that qualifies as CFP material.' With OU it's more like 'OH 1 loss...ehh...well I guess there is room to slip up, and we'll you probably a bigger brand than whasington state. Sure we will let you in.'

It's hard to know what happens if the Big 12 has a 1 loss champ not named OU. We only have the 2014 season to work from - and that year's Big 12 didn't play a CCG. Either way, it's just a bad argument that the conference below OU has been "the minors" when so many of them have major bowl wins on the resume. Baylor and Oklahoma State both got a ton of national love last season. Iowa State started last year in the pre-season Top 10. It's also just disrespectful to OU's last decade of accomplishment as an athletic department to attribute it to being in a minor league conference.

[FoCoSooner]

A big inventory of games in Central and Eastern time zones. Nobody wanting unequal revenue. Not forced to play games late at night when half the college football fans are already blind drunk from watching games all day and more interested in getting their old lady in the sack than watching football until 11 PM or Midnight... That is some advantages...

If one of the PAC's big selling points is their night games, they are already toast. The Big 12 could just as easily fill that slot by adding Boise along with BYU and play games against them in those time slots to compete with the PAC and take away a chunk of that revenue...

I don't believe you understand TV.

The Big 12 inventory of T-2 games has very little value as there are so many T-1 games from other conferences that the Big 12 will be relegated to FS1, ESPN2, etc type channels as ESPN has no room for Big 12 on OTA. Whats even more likely is the Big 12 gets moved to ESPN+.

The real value is in T-1 games, which the PAC has more of due to Oregon and Washington.

PAC will also get a lot more games on OTA than the new version of the Big 12 will.

PAC can likely get 3-4 games on OTA/ESPN each week between FOX and ESPN time slots.

I do agree that CTZ content is good, but when there are 30+ games going on at the same time the Big 12 gets lots in the shuffle pretty quickly.
I also agree that unequal revenue sharing is appealing, we will see how far that goes with the PAC. One think to keep in mind is the Big 12 already offered unequal revenue sharing in the last year so they are the only P-5 who as done so officially, and it was a failure.
There are benefits to having games on OTA even if it is a late slot, anything is better than FS1 or ESPN+


Trying to battle the PAC with Boise and BYU is a losing proposition. Boise is not going to save the Big12. Sorry they just aren't.

[RealignmentFan]

Yes it does.

There are only 6 conference who have not played for a NC in the last decade. Big 12 is one of them, along with the AAC, MW, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC.


Only 4 conference have played for a NC.


Has nothing to do with hate, has to do with facts.


The new version of the Big 12 is most certainly minor league and nobody has elite talent or the ability to win a NC.

It’s true that the Big 12’s biggest issue is its elites were not elites. The SEC likely overpaid for OU. In the SEC they’re not much different than an Ok St I’m afraid. Like Boise going to PAC or Big 12.

Nevertheless, the PAC has been fighting off AAC and MWC. It’s toast. Now or next round.

[FoCoSooner]

That's not what I've read, and according people who are lawyers with experience in intellectual property. I'll see if I can find the link, but it was a few days ago I saw it.

Specific performance refers to actions in the future, an example would be "if Notre Dame joins a conference it must be the ACC". A court won't force them to join the ACC, so damages would be determined instead.

The grants of rights happened in 2016, no specific performance is required for something that has already occurred.

You also think ND plays "all it's games at 2:30" and are completely wrong.

2021= 3 home games not at 2:30
2020= 3 home games not at 2:30
2019 = 3 home games not at 2:30
2018 = 4 home games not at 2:30

Do you still think all home ND games are at 2:30? Or can you admit you were wrong?

[kopp0e]

Gorbachev doing a bang up job out west.

Odd, PAC will die from a refusal to add: Oklahoma State… When PAC could’ve went to 14 in 2011…
We know Oklahoma was a lock by itself or with Kansas, but Boren… Anyway OU may have bolted…
Looking at how #1: Sooners/ #2: Longhorns/ #3: Trojans would’ve had to carry 13 other PAC ‘foes’…
Oklahoma-Texas-USC, probably leave for the same SEC &/ or B1G in the same timeframe to now…

[Val on the Getner]

^It's alright to just say "I hate the big 12." You're not alone. But saying it's been minor league for 10 years is dumb. You're either defining "major league" extremely narrowly or you're defining it with no consistency. You seem to know that though.

OU is moving to a better conference - but it doesn't make the one we've been in the minors.

Less about hating the Big 12, and more about being frustrated with the decade of apologia in the wake of devastating blows in 2010 and 2012.

[Bryanw1995]

Sometimes we're not really sure who Phillips is working for.

Phillips seems more like a classic leader when they should have been thinking outside the box like the big 12 did.

[FoCoSooner]

It’s true that the Big 12’s biggest issue is its elites were not elites. The SEC likely overpaid for OU. In the SEC they’re not much different than an Ok St I’m afraid. Like Boise going to PAC or Big 12.

Nevertheless, the PAC has been fighting off AAC and MWC. It’s toast. Now or next round.

Now the issue is there are no elites.

Either the PAC or Big 12 will die in the next year.

The PAC is negotiating it's TV deal. if they keep Oregon and Washington while signing a GOR they are the winner,


The only way the Big 12 wins this battle is if they get 4 PAC schools to join, and even then it's the clear Blogs conference. The only way that happens is if someone else takes Oregon and Washington.

The Big 12 can also lose by adding Boise, SMU, Memphis, and USF.



Another dead giveaway is the Big 12 announcing that they were terminating negotiations with the PAC. That likely means ESPN was not willing to pay them to take PAC teams, or the PAC turned them down. Like an ugly dude claiming he doesn't' want to go out with the hot chick he just got rejected by.

The most likely scenario is the Big 12 losing teams to the ACC and PAC, and dissolving.


The best case scenario for the Big 12 is if the ACC or B1G takes Oregon and Washington and the Big 12 end up with some of the lower value PAC teams. This way they are the clear Blogs conference, and that's best case scenario.

[hank970]

There's maybe 6 teams with elite talent enough to win the NC.


6 teams in all of college football, I mean.

How boring is that? Suspense and Cinderella grab eyeballs. How many years before viewers begin to tune out?

[ElectricSooner]

Looking like we're getting Texas, Mizzou, and Arkansas as permanent rivals.

Arkansas surprises me, since there's little-to-no history, especially compared to A&M. However, it's a good strategic move if you want to kneecap the Pokes in Tulsa.

in the ancient days there was some shenanigans with Arkansas so they were effectively shadow banned from the schedule. i would rather have them than A&M. has there been an announcement on it???

[John Swofford]

Phillips seems more like a classic leader when they should have been thinking outside the box like the big 12 did.

What outside the box thinking has the XII done? You're talking about a conference that's been raided twice and walking a tightrope towards extinction.

[FoCoSooner]

There's maybe 6 teams with elite talent enough to win the NC.


6 teams in all of college football, I mean.

I have closer to 10 who could actually do it. Teams like Miami, Oregon, FSU, Florida, Auburn, OU, Notre Dame, Texas, aTm, Bama, USC, and Georgia have the ability to get elite talent. They are all in the mix overall, but right now you are correct that there are probably 5-6 that have 95% of the chance to win a NC.

The problem for the Big 12 is they have the same amount of teams capable of winning a NC as the AAC, Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC. 0

The data is clear, you need 10+ five star player on a team to win a NC these days. The Big 12 will never have 10-20 five star players as a conference, let alone for one team. I don't think there is even a single five star player in the new version of the Big 12. They are not playing for a NC trophy.

[FoCoSooner]

What outside the box thinking has the XII done? You're talking about a conference that's been raided twice and walking a tightrope towards extinction.

He is probably referring to having 1 true champion commercials all season in 2014, and then awarding 2 CC's, neither of which made the top. That was classic Bowlsby. Always reacting, never being proactive.

[camel at sea]

Less about hating the Big 12, and more about being frustrated with the decade of apologia in the wake of devastating blows in 2010 and 2012.

I think the truth about the Big 12 from 2012 onward lies somewhere between the rose-colored glasses that Iowa State fans seem to see it through and the "everyone is laughing at us and everything is terrible" cries from some message boarders at OU.

The reality is that 1) OU has made really good money, 2) the conference was extremely competitive, top to bottom, in the two revenue sports, 3) OU continued getting the benefit of the doubt from voters/selection committee, 4) OU continued getting enough media love to produce a couple more Heisman winners, 5) OU has had its best era ever for non-football sports, 6) OU's R&D budget has jumped dramatically.

Alternatively, 1) the home football schedule sucked every other year, 2) the conference office has been dickish toward us for most of the last decade, and 3) not being in the SEC hurt us a little bit on the recruiting trail with some prospects. As to the last, we still have been trending up the BCR for 5 years anyway but it's clearly been an issue to some degree at some position groups. I'm not completely convinced though that Mike Stoops/Alex Grinch were not the primary recruiting issues, though.

[FoCoSooner]

He doesn't really want a list, he's like me and just loves to argue. But at least I'm not a Pac shill.

Translation = You can't really make many positive points for the Big 12 so you change the subject. Very predictable.


If the Big 12 had only lost 2 teams and 35% of it's value, if it has a network, it it had more T-1 content, were negotiating a TV deal now, etc I would give the edge to the Big 12. But those are all positives for the PAC.


Seriously what indication have you seen from ESPN and FOX that they are going to save the Big12?

FOX returned the CCG's to the Big 12, ESPN stole 2 teams and then had attorneys write a letter to the Big 12 telling them to stop accusing ESPN of illegal activity.

When you look at the last 12 years for the Big12 it's 'hard to see how this is going to work out for them. All signs have been that FOX and ESPN do not care about the Big 12 surviving.

[FoCoSooner]

Gotcha. So you don't want to actually answer any questions or prove your point, you prefer to share your feeling with us on what you think is funny.

Nothing to debate here.

You think Stanford should/will join a conference with UCF.

I do not think Stanford should/will join a conference with UCF

It's really that simple and certainly not worth debating.


I think if you did a poll on this you would find a 99% majority on one side of the view.

[Mark.in.Tulsa]

Nothing to debate here.

You think Stanford should/will join a conference with UCF.

I do not think Stanford should/will join a conference with UCF

It's really that simple and certainly not worth debating.


I think if you did a poll on this you would find a 99% majority on one side of the view.

I never brought up Stanford. You decided to ignore my questions and throw out a hyperbole of Stanford wanting to play UCF.
I just replied to your hyperbole of I think Stanford would rather play them than not be in a conference when the rest of the teams bolt.

I don't think when all said and done I think Stanford will be in the B12. I think it will be the 4 corner schools from the Pac that join.

[Jett]

^It's alright to just say "I hate the big 12." You're not alone. But saying it's been minor league for 10 years is dumb.

OU is moving to a better conference - but it doesn't make the one we've been in the minors.

Bull Rubbish. Choklahoma was created because OU played in a minor league conference.

Before Bobby became afflicted with Mack Brown's disease, he convinced Sooner fans OU football was about winning WAC 12 championships. That's why OU would get embarrassed on the national stage. That nonsense was acceptable and promoted by Wallflower, Joe, and Bobby.

I recall Spencer Tillman calling out Bobby's arse on CBS before the aTm (Johnny Football) vs Alabama game in College Station. When Spencer appeared on James Hale's radio show days later, he refused to walk back his comments.

Bobby despised the Monster. Barry embraced the Monster. Like Pete Carroll, Barry loved the big stage. Bobby would curl up in a fetal position and get his arse embarrassed on national tv time and time again. Boise State. Smh

Sooner fans and OU administrators were satisfied being the Big Dog in a pissant, minor league conference.

Before Brent agreed to accept the OU job, he got assurances from Joe C., that rubble/attitude would be permanently exterminating from the football program.

Before Brent arrived in Norman, OU was not prepared to compete in the SEC.

[RocketCitySooner]

There's maybe 6 teams with elite talent enough to win the NC.


6 teams in all of college football, I mean.

Only six teams elite enough to win the NC raises the question of why we need to expand the CFP beyond six to eight teams.

[Bryanw1995]

What outside the box thinking has the XII done? You're talking about a conference that's been raided twice and walking a tightrope towards extinction.

He is probably referring to having 1 true champion commercials all season in 2014, and then awarding 2 CC's, neither of which made the top. That was classic Bowlsby. Always reacting, never being proactive.

They hired JZ’s COO instead of the same old bland suit that conferences usually hire. I’m still not convinced that he will do any better than previous commissioners, but at least they tried something different. Phillips is more like Neville Chamberlain, the ACC should can him and try to find themselves a Churchill. The barbarians are at the gates.

[camel at sea]

Bull Rubbish. Choklahoma was created because OU played in a minor league conference.

Before Bobby became afflicted with Mack Brown's disease, he convinced Sooner fans OU football was about winning WAC 12 championships. That's why OU would get embarrassed on the national stage. That nonsense was acceptable and promoted by Wallflower, Joe, and Bobby.

I recall Spencer Tillman calling out Bobby's arse on CBS before the aTm (Johnny Football) vs Alabama game in College Station. When Spencer appeared on James Hale's radio show days later, he refused to walk back his comments.

Bobby despised the Monster. Barry embraced the Monster. Like Pete Carroll, Barry loved the big stage. Bobby would curl up in a fetal position and get his arse embarrassed on national tv time and time again. Boise State. Smh

Sooner fans and OU administrators were satisfied being the Big Dog in a pissant, minor league conference.

Before Brent agreed to accept the job, he got assurances from Joe C., that rubble/attitude would be permanently exterminating from the football program.

Before Brent arrived in Norman, OU was not prepared to compete in the SEC.

The "Chokelahoma" thing started before anyone defected from the Big 12. So you're arguing that Big 12 1.0 was also the minor leagues?

Bob Stoops at OU was basically Steve Spurrier at Florida. He won one national title and a lot of conference titles. Neither of those leagues were minor leagues during their runs there.

[soonergrad]

Bull Rubbish. Choklahoma was created because OU played in a minor league conference.

Before Bobby became afflicted with Mack Brown's disease, he convinced Sooner fans OU football was about winning WAC 12 championships. That's why OU would get embarrassed on the national stage. That nonsense was acceptable and promoted by Wallflower, Joe, and Bobby.

I recall Spencer Tillman calling out Bobby's arse on CBS before the aTm (Johnny Football) vs Alabama game in College Station. When Spencer appeared on James Hale's radio show days later, he refused to walk back his comments.

Bobby despised the Monster. Barry embraced the Monster. Like Pete Carroll, Barry loved the big stage. Bobby would curl up in a fetal position and get his arse embarrassed on national tv time and time again. Boise State. Smh

Sooner fans and OU administrators were satisfied being the Big Dog in a pissant, minor league conference.

Before Brent agreed to accept the OU job, he got assurances from Joe C., that rubble/attitude would be permanently exterminating from the football program.

Before Brent arrived in Norman, OU was not prepared to compete in the SEC.

AMEN!!! Preach it!

[Bryanw1995]

Translation = You can't really make many positive points for the Big 12 so you change the subject. Very predictable.


If the Big 12 had only lost 2 teams and 35% of it's value, if it has a network, it it had more T-1 content, were negotiating a TV deal now, etc I would give the edge to the Big 12. But those are all positives for the PAC.


Seriously what indication have you seen from ESPN and FOX that they are going to save the Big12?

FOX returned the CCG's to the Big 12, ESPN stole 2 teams and then had attorneys write a letter to the Big 12 telling them to stop accusing ESPN of illegal activity.

When you look at the last 12 years for the Big12 it's 'hard to see how this is going to work out for them. All signs have been that FOX and ESPN do not care about the Big 12 surviving.

Interesting that you skipped ahead to this post instead of quoting what I wrote before it. You must be in marketing…wait, a Pac shill, savvy at marketing…they must have hired somebody. Not somebody good bc you’re too confrontational, but they get an A for effort.

[FoCoSooner]

The other thing that's weird about the current thing, and the common consensus around "We're trying to get down to 32/40/48 teams playing at the top level" is that it totally flies in the face of the direction of where the sport has moved for the last 25 years. Conference realignment hasn't dumped anyone from the majors to the minors since the SWC disbanded and dumped Houston and SMU.

Despite all the gnashing of teeth about realignment, the truth is that it has elevated a ton of teams and every one of them is in a conference at the same or higher level than they played 25 years ago. Realignment has clearly grown the pie and increased upward mobility and elevated more programs than it has relegated (arguably, none).

All of a sudden, we're talking about just the opposite, and reversing the entire direction of the sport, and a total reversal of course for ESPN. These last two moves by the SEC and Big 10 threaten to do that, but I'm not totally buying that ESPN is ready to do that and relegate half of college football after 25 years of the opposite. Maybe, but I'm not convinced yet that they aren't going to continue to try to thread the needle between strengthening their best product while maintaining major status, like they've done for a long time. But it's maybe past the point of no return.

We will see a new division as schools with 20 million $ AD's should not be in the same division as 200million $ AD's.

The only real downgrades I know of are UConn who is well on it's way back to FCS from the Big East.

But the truth is almost all FBS teams have been downgraded to peasants in FBS. When you have no path to winning a NC it's hard to say you are really thriving in the new setting.

You see a lot of different approaches. NDSU is content playing in a division they dominate, even if it means fans lose interest, they feel like winning NC"s is more important. Then you have teams like Jacksonville State who have not been that successful at FCS and move up anyway.

[camel at sea]

Only six teams elite enough to win the NC raises the question of why we need to expand the CFP beyond six to eight teams.

The competitive first round games from a 12 team playoff will make a LOT of money. There's less gap between the five seed and #12 than there is between the 1 seed and the five seed.

The separation between the tip top of college football and the very good won't be as evident until the semi-final and title game. By then, there will have been several quality games in the football tourney. Expanding the playoff gives the audience better games, gives more regions in the country a reason to watch, and you give more schools/fanbases something to care / brag about. Schools will tout winning a Uncategorized Groups vs #11 game the way schools in men's basketball brag about making a regional final in the NCAA tourney.

[keef]

How boring is that? Suspense and Cinderella grab eyeballs. How many years before viewers begin to tune out?

It's been that way forever. It used to be maybe 15 or 20 teams could put it together to win it all. But now, like WTinTX's sock said, there's maybe 10 total teams who could, in a given year, put a team together that could win it all. Not all 10 teams do that ever year. Maybe 5 or 6 do.

The rest of the country is just hoping to play spoiler here and there.

[FoCoSooner]

Interesting that you skipped ahead to this post instead of quoting what I wrote before it. You must be in marketing…wait, a Pac shill, savvy at marketing…they must have hired somebody. Not somebody good bc you’re too confrontational, but they get an A for effort.

Notice how you are afraid to debate and always fall back to personal talk.

So in reality what is going on here is the things I say bother you, but you are afraid to debate that so you circle back to conspiracy theories.

You don't need to be a PAC shill to understand the Big 12 is not in a great spot.

Have you seen any indication from a TV partner that they want to help the Big 12?

I have not. I have seen FOX drop a 75 million $ contract for CCG's, and ESPN robbed the crown jewels of the Big 12. And nobody stepped in to help like last time.

[keef]

I wonder how easy I'd be to spot if I came back under a different name? Clearly some are easier than others.

[FoCoSooner]

They hired JZ’s COO instead of the same old bland suit that conferences usually hire. I’m still not convinced that he will do any better than previous commissioners, but at least they tried something different. Phillips is more like Neville Chamberlain, the ACC should can him and try to find themselves a Churchill. The barbarians are at the gates.

We have seen 3 different approaches from the PAC, ACC, and Big 12.

I personally like the PAC hire as long as he can get vegs involved. The Big 12 is still really unknown what he can do as far as media negotiations as that's really the main job at this point.

PAC seems more like a traditional hire, like a Bowlsby was, and like Larry Scott was which were both complete disasters.


Bowlsby was really bad as Sankey sat in playoff expansion meetings across form bob pretending to be a friend, while quietly putting him our of a job. A true barbarian.

But I think Larry gets the nod for worst commissioner as not taking OU and KU when they had the chance was the biggest mistake in realignment.

[RocketCitySooner]

The competitive first round games from a 12 team playoff will make a LOT of money. There's less gap between the five seed and #12 than there is between the 1 seed and the five seed.

The separation between the tip top of college football and the very good won't be as evident until the semi-final and title game. By then, there will have been several quality games in the football tourney. Expanding the playoff gives the audience better games, gives more regions in the country a reason to watch, and you give more schools/fanbases something to care / brag about. Schools will tout winning a Uncategorized Groups vs #11 game the way schools in men's basketball brag about making a regional final in the NCAA tourney.

You're arguing that the purpose of the CFP is to make money which I fully agree with. I was pointing out that if the purpose is to determine the best team, then an eight team playoff is sufficient.

[Jett]

The "Chokelahoma" thing started before anyone defected from the Big 12. So you're arguing that Big 12 1.0 was also the minor leagues?

Bob Stoops at OU was basically Steve Spurrier at Florida. He won one national title and a lot of conference titles. Neither of those leagues were minor leagues during their runs there.

Yes!! Only a minor league team would claim a phony 1945 National Championship. Three(?) years ago an tOSU fan posted on YouTube, numerous years of NFL draft stats by conference. WAC 12's NFL draft numbers were pathetic. The numbers were Amateurish. Minor league. Elementary. Take your pick.

[Jett]

It's been that way forever. It used to be maybe 15 or 20 teams could put it together to win it all. But now, like WTinTX's sock said, there's maybe 10 total teams who could, in a given year, put a team together that could win it all. Not all 10 teams do that ever year. Maybe 5 or 6 do.

The rest of the country is just hoping to play spoiler here and there.

Do you realize expanding the number of playoff spots reduces the odds significantly for an OSU, Baylor, or Cincinnati of winning a national championship?

If your answer is yes, qualifying for a college football playoff spot or playing the role of a spoiler is equivalent to winning a national championship?

[camel at sea]

Yes!! Only a minor league team would claim a phony 1945 National Championship. Three(?) years ago an tOSU fan posted on YouTube, numerous years of NFL draft stats by conference. WAC 12's NFL draft numbers were pathetic. The numbers were Amateurish. Minor league. Elementary. Take your pick.

Careful or we're gonna get SoonerGrad on here defending the legitimacy of Bama's 18 national titles.

The Big 12 region (Big 8, Big 12 1.0, Big 12 2.0, etc.) has always produced fewer NFL prospects than the schools in the Deep South. The conference has always been successful on the field. I'd like to hear thoughts from guys like AD, Jason White, the Boz, etc., about whether they competed in a minor league conference.

[camel at sea]

Do you realize expanding the number of playoff spots reduces the odds significantly for an OSU, Baylor, or Cincinnati of winning a national championship?

If your answer is yes, qualifying for a college football playoff spot or playing the role of a spoiler is equivalent to winning a national championship?

You decrease their odds of winning a title but you dramatically increase the odds that they ever win a playoff game. That's the same type of tradeoff the NCAA men's tourney has always made.

[keef]

Careful or we're gonna get SoonerGrad on here defending the legitimacy of Bama's 18 national titles.

The Big 12 region (Big 8, Big 12 1.0, Big 12 2.0, etc.) has always produced fewer NFL prospects than the schools in the Deep South. The conference has always been successful on the field. I'd like to hear thoughts from guys like AD, Jason White, the Boz, etc., about whether they competed in a minor league conference.

I'm sure someone is going to yell at me for this question but "has a national title winning QB from OU ever done anything of note in the NFL"?

[John Swofford]

They hired JZ’s COO instead of the same old bland suit that conferences usually hire. I’m still not convinced that he will do any better than previous commissioners, but at least they tried something different. Phillips is more like Neville Chamberlain, the ACC should can him and try to find themselves a Churchill. The barbarians are at the gates.

Phillips inherited an abortion of a contract so I don't know what he is supposed to do about that.? If you are referring to the Alliance stuff, you can make a sound argument that all of this expansion is ruining sports. So I don't see how you can blame him for that. He is out in front of the NIL and portal in terms of it needing some form of regulation so you can't blame him for that.

If you want to put egg on his face for teaming up with the B1G on said Alliance...fine. That didn't work out....but my guess is now.....as it was then......was he was trying to play hardball with ESPN to get a new contract. If that turns out to be true (we'll never know) then I can't blame him for that either. Expansion is always driven by the networks not the commissioners. I believe the ACC will expand in the near future.

The XII's commissioner hasn't even been to his office yet and some are calling him a good hire? Pump the brakes.

[Deadeye]

Phillips inherited an abortion of a contract so I don't know what he is supposed to do about that.? If you are referring to the Alliance stuff, you can make a sound argument that all of this expansion is ruining sports. So I don't see how you can blame him for that. He is out in front of the NIL and portal in terms of it needing some form of regulation so you can't blame him for that.

If you want to put egg on his face for teaming up with the B1G on said Alliance...fine. That didn't work out....but my guess is now.....as it was then......was he was trying to play hardball with ESPN to get a new contract. If that turns out to be true (we'll never know) then I can't blame him for that either. Expansion is always driven by the networks not the commissioners. I believe the ACC will expand in the near future.

The XII's commissioner hasn't even been to his office yet and some are calling him a good hire? Pump the brakes.

Agree about Phillips. The ACC contract is his Kobayashi Maru test.

[Dawgpile]

I'd rather have Arkansas than Ms State for A&M

Tired of losing to 'Hail State'? You got a worse record against Arky....

[Bryanw1995]

Phillips inherited an abortion of a contract so I don't know what he is supposed to do about that.? If you are referring to the Alliance stuff, you can make a sound argument that all of this expansion is ruining sports. So I don't see how you can blame him for that. He is out in front of the NIL and portal in terms of it needing some form of regulation so you can't blame him for that.

If you want to put egg on his face for teaming up with the B1G on said Alliance...fine. That didn't work out....but my guess is now.....as it was then......was he was trying to play hardball with ESPN to get a new contract. If that turns out to be true (we'll never know) then I can't blame him for that either. Expansion is always driven by the networks not the commissioners. I believe the ACC will expand in the near future.

The XII's commissioner hasn't even been to his office yet and some are calling him a good hire? Pump the brakes.

I don't know if he'll do a good job as the Commissioner, he has a tough mountain to climb. But the hire, itself, is good in that they needed something different than what they had in the past and they at least went for it. I'd wager that the ACC would not have hired Phillips if you had retired now b/c it takes a different kind of man to Raid and Pillage than it does to Shelter and Grow. Phillips is a grower, the big 12 at least tried to get a Pillager.

Tired of losing to 'Hail State'? You got a worse record against Arky....

It's not about W/L, it's about history. Every single game other than Vanderbilt is going to be a battle. We just have a much longer history against Arky. We've only played Ms State 15 times. We've played Arky 78 times.

Though, if you want to talk about our record, we've won 9 of 10 against Arky.

[Azonahorn]

You all who think the Big 12 is stable because nobody want's to add their teams is quire funny. Nole Lou pointed this out earlier.

Almost as funny as thinking Stanford want's be in a conference with UCF. Ideas like that are simply not even worth arguing about as they are so far our of reality. But you are welcome to believe Stanford is coming to the Big 12 if you want. The reality is the only elite academic institution who would join the Big 12 right now is Rice.




The Big 12 is not stable in any way until there is a GOR which won't be for a couple of years. Even the timing is just bad for the Big 12. I will eat crow if Stanford joins the Big 12 like you believe is the case.

I guess we could all go round and round on this. I think the Big 12 is a better option for some of the schools in the remaining PAC, simply because the other conferences are not going to offer them, and the PAC is going to die sooner or later...They are geographically hosed..They only have G5 schools left to add ...Is it better for the 4 corner schools to join the Big 12 now rather than wait for UO and UW to rob them with unequal revenue sharing and then leave them standing at the alter when some better option comes along? Absolutely it is...

They can all wait around for some kind of ACC merger that does not seem likely to happen for the 4 corners...The ACC's best option right now is probably to take UO, UW, Stanford, and maybe 1 other PAC school so UO and UW arent left on a big island out in the middle of nowhere. The BIG may or may not ever come calling for UO or UW, but it seems likely they could to keep USC and UCLA off a big island in the middle of nowhere. Where does that leave the 4 corner schools? Stay in the PAC and give unequal share of money to UO and UW, or move off to Big 12 where they likely make more money per school? Every projection i've seen has the new Big 12 making more money per school even minus OU and UT..

Why would those 4 schools stick around to prop up UO and UW on their way out the door when they can be the masters of their own fate?

Have you heard any rumors of any Big 12 schools going to the PAC? No, all the rumors are the other way around...None of the Big 12 schools are going to sign up to go to the PAC because they've seen how this movie plays out in the past. Stick around and watch the 2 big dogs eat steak while you eat bologna, and then the 2 big dogs move off to a better gang of dogs..Except, in the new version of the PAC, the 2 remaining big dogs aint that big...

[Jett]

You decrease their odds of winning a title but you dramatically increase the odds that they ever win a playoff game. That's the same type of tradeoff the NCAA men's tourney has always made.

Winning a playoff game is equivalent to winning a national championship. Qualifying for a playoff spot is equivalent to winning a national championship. Winning a WAC 12 championship is equivalent to winning a national championship.

They should eliminate the postseason and I will annoint a national champion. The ratings for college football would skyrocket. ESPN could charge $50.00 a month for ESPN Plus.