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    Is the party over for Clemson?

    Something to distract us from arguing about our new coaches: Clemson has lost basically its entire '22 class and its longtime coordinators. I can't help but think back to Bowden's steep decline after losing Richt and Amato, although there are some pretty serious differences, too. Do you see an immediate decline for Clemson or is it way too early to be writing any obituaries?
    Last edited by novasooner; 12-10-2021, 09:24 PM.

    #2
    At this point it wouldn't surprise me to see Dabo's taillights disappearing down the street. It's like someone snuck into the coaches meeting and ripped off a toxic fart.

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      #3
      Major decline. They have no QB, no coaches, no recruits, I guess we'll find out how good Dabo is.

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        #4
        Originally posted by novasooner View Post
        Do you see an immediate decline for Clemson or is it way too early to be writing any obituaries?
        I'm pretty sure there was a term in 2013 that describes (perfectly) what is happening now, and what's about to happen. That term is "Clemsoning" I was told it replaced "Munsoned" in 2012.
        Last edited by SoonerMagick; 12-10-2021, 09:47 PM.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Catfish View Post
          Major decline. They have no QB, no coaches, no recruits, I guess we'll find out how good Dabo is.
          And no AD. Stick a fork in them.

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            #6
            We’re doing to Clemson what that asshole Riley and USC did to us, except I think we’re getting much better guys overall. I honestly can’t believe our luck after how it looked over a week ago.

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              #7
              They still have two recent NC and players all over the NFL. They may be down but not out.

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                #8
                ACC is a shit conference now, so they don’t need to do much to win it.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
                  They still have two recent NC and players all over the NFL. They may be down but not out.
                  Time will tell. Miami, Florida State and Nebraska once had that too. Then again, they all had significant hc changes which made huge impacts as well.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by KCRuf/Nek View Post
                    They still have two recent NC and players all over the NFL. They may be down but not out.
                    Ya thinking some of those NFL guys will suit up for Dabo to help out next year?

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by FtwTxSooner View Post
                      ACC is a shit conference now, so they don’t need to do much to win it.
                      Iron shapes Iron, Clemson 2015-2019 is the exception to that- no injuries, shit competition, superior game planning. BV was in that. Hope he can bring some defensive game planning to Norman, which is why I'm not too worried about Roof. He'll be just as much of a DC as Cale Gundy and Bedenbaugh have been "OC" in the last year.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by BoomerSooner2578

                        Iron shapes Iron, Clemson 2015-2019 is the exception to that- no injuries, shit competition, superior game planning. BV was in that. Hope he can bring some defensive game planning to Norman, which is why I'm not too worried about Roof. He'll be just as much of a DC as Cale Gundy and Bedenbaugh have been "OC" in the last year.
                        If you watched Clemson D, you'll notice that he used the same schemes he did when he was at OU. The difference was the talent at his disposal. Middle of the field was still open.

                        I'm SO glad that BV has learned that from his experience at Clemson. You can see that he's targeting the same kind of athletes at OU & hitting up the SE instead of TX talent. Once we upgrade D talent and keep our O output the same, we should see results that we desire.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by BoomerSooner2578 View Post

                          Iron shapes Iron, Clemson 2015-2019 is the exception to that- no injuries, shit competition, superior game planning. BV was in that. Hope he can bring some defensive game planning to Norman, which is why I'm not too worried about Roof. He'll be just as much of a DC as Cale Gundy and Bedenbaugh have been "OC" in the last year.
                          Yeah maybe, but its not what the fans think of him it's the recruits...if they like the staff they come, if not they go elsewhere..We shall see

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by OUspin View Post

                            If you watched Clemson D, you'll notice that he used the same schemes he did when he was at OU. The difference was the talent at his disposal. Middle of the field was still open.

                            I'm SO glad that BV has learned that from his experience at Clemson. You can see that he's targeting the same kind of athletes at OU & hitting up the SE instead of TX talent. Once we upgrade D talent and keep our O output the same, we should see results that we desire.
                            agreed. I have watched. I DVR SEC games that conflict with what I want to watch live, and 1/2 of the time- Prior to 2021, I'd done the same with Clemson games. 2021 Clemson was not a priority to me.

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                              #15
                              If I had to guess, most of these guys can read the writing on the wall and know that the ACC is a sinking ship. Under the old model, Clemson had nearly every resource at its disposal. With the restructuring, it will doubtlessly get left behind. A fancy agreement with the B1G and Pac won't save it. When the media contract dust settles, they'll end up with WAY less money than SEC or B1G schools. It might not happen overnight, but I think you can begin to hear a death rattle. Idk, but it seems like Dabo might go down with the ship. He's stubborn about not adapting to the new reality of CFB, and I kind of respect it. I don't think it will take Clemson into the future, but I respect the resolve there.

                              I think that the comparison to FSU or Miami is pretty spot on. I actually see a way out of mediocrity for Nebraska, but I wouldn't bet the farm on that happening in the next few years.
                              Last edited by LukeDM; 12-11-2021, 12:00 AM. Reason: Typo

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                                #16
                                Excuse me fellas...

                                But did you forget that Clemson still has their lake?

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Ruprecht View Post
                                  Excuse me fellas...

                                  But did you forget that Clemson still has their lake?
                                  Can't forget the slide either.
                                  Last edited by LukeDM; 12-11-2021, 12:58 AM.

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                                    #18
                                    Dabo has proven he can build a program, but the real challenge is SUSTAINING one. Saban goes through this every year. We are about to see if coach Karen Awe Shucks can do the same. I have my doubts.

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                                      #19
                                      I'm in the minority, but I've always liked Dabo. Is he a phony? Almost certainly.

                                      But the dude was a nobody, the Clemson program was ashes, and he built up something in less than a decade where he was dad-dicking Saban and Bama on national tv. Gotta respect that.

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                                        #20
                                        Graveyard too.. ?

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                                          #21
                                          There are rumors that Dabo may be leaving for the NFL. Regardless, Clemson is still a great program surrounded by elite talent. They are the most SEC like program Outside of the SEC. They will take a step back but they’re not going away.

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                                            #22
                                            The thing to me is that seemingly Dabo, at least publicly, isn't making any kind of rash hires. Granted, it's been 5 days since Brent left (and 1 since the OC left) but this sounds like two possibilities:

                                            1) Dabo already has people in mind for his open positions and will wait until after the bowls, and if he suffers the loss of some recruits so be it. Or 2) He's NFL bound and doesn't give a fuck what happens between now and then.

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                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by FW_Sooner View Post
                                              We’re doing to Clemson what that asshole Riley and USC did to us, except I think we’re getting much better guys overall. I honestly can’t believe our luck after how it looked over a week ago.
                                              Though similar in ways the biggest and perhaps most important difference is HOW BV left Clemson. He didn’t blindside his employer and flash his boney ass at the fans as he was leaving. OU/BV deal was done with class whereas USC/TBOW deals was totally classless and shameful.

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                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Shi++y_Shi+bird View Post

                                                Ya thinking some of those NFL guys will suit up for Dabo to help out next year?
                                                Doubt it. I’m sure he uses them as a carrot on his stick for these kids.

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                                                  #25
                                                  kind of makes you wonder if there was any talks between OU and Dabo now the way things are shaking out. For years i've heard in the media and message boards about how loyal Dabo's assistants are, how they never leave for other jobs, how he held his core group together.... and now all in one year things are blowing up, I won't be surprised if he goes to the pros, or maybe Saban is going to really shock the world and retire but is requiring a new coach to keep his assistant coaches? I don't know but something strange is going on there.

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                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by SoonerHank View Post
                                                    There are rumors that Dabo may be leaving for the NFL. Regardless, Clemson is still a great program surrounded by elite talent. They are the most SEC like program Outside of the SEC. They will take a step back but they’re not going away.
                                                    Alabama insiders SWEAR he'll replace Saban upon retirement.
                                                    soonergrad , this is what you're hearing also, correct?

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                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by BoomerSooner2578 View Post

                                                      Alabama insiders SWEAR he'll replace Saban upon retirement.
                                                      soonergrad , this is what you're hearing also, correct?
                                                      That’s been the rumor forever. However, Dabo may not want to follow saban. Whoever follows Saban will undoubtedly be under appreciated and if they don’t win the title, will be considered a failure by Bama fans.

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                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by SoonerHank View Post

                                                        That’s been the rumor forever. However, Dabo may not want to follow saban. Whoever follows Saban will undoubtedly be under appreciated and if they don’t win the title, will be considered a failure by Bama fans.
                                                        I think 'Bama fans would be OK with not ruling College Football with an iron fist. In this era of parity (scholly limitations), it's RIDICULOUS what Saban has been able to pull off, because he's the GOAT. Hiring a coach that's "not as good as Saban" is inevitable. As far as I know, they want Dabo.

                                                        We hear the lunatics that call in to Finebaum, but that's not what your average 'Bama fan expects when Saban retires. They're good fans. I've got three 'Bama close friends (b/c Boulder= transplant city)
                                                        XXL TideFan
                                                        OrangeBeachBum68
                                                        soonergrad
                                                        will agree with this assessment, none of which I know personally.
                                                        Last edited by SoonerMagick; 12-11-2021, 11:26 AM.

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                                                          #29
                                                          i would wager they will regress to what they were prior to 2010. a solid program who are a difficult out and may challenge every 10 yrs or so. with the ACC not being as strong that means I can see them being consistently 10-2 and winning the league every year. I can see them dropping to an 8-4 level if recruiting drops off, but i don't see them pulling a Miami, FSU or Nebraska all three of which IMO were one trick ponies. outside of Bowden FSU was nothing. 304 of their 565 total wins belong to him. Until Jimmie Johnson started the whole no limit soldier teams of the 80's Miami wasn't anything to write home about either Schnellenberger if you ask me was a fluke. their campus is in a cesspool and the appeal of the beach gets old. Nebraska had a good run from the 60's through the 90's but were only super successful for the most part when OU was down. OU's reemergence in 2000 and the changes to recruiting doomed them after Osborne left and I don't see them competing as they once did unless something drastically changes.

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                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by BoomerSooner2578 View Post

                                                            Alabama insiders SWEAR he'll replace Saban upon retirement.
                                                            soonergrad , this is what you're hearing also, correct?
                                                            No. Most of the Bama people I talk too thought Mario Cristobal would be the likely favorite to replace Saban. Don't know if that will change with his move to Miami. May depend on his success there. Most Bama fans I know don't think that Dabo's schtick will play well at a post Saban Bama.

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                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by OUrage View Post
                                                              Though similar in ways the biggest and perhaps most important difference is HOW BV left Clemson. He didn’t blindside his employer and flash his boney ass at the fans as he was leaving. OU/BV deal was done with class whereas USC/TBOW deals was totally classless and shameful.
                                                              I totally agree! Maybe it's because we rarely have coaching changes, but I had no idea that it was common practice for coaches to take assistants from their former school with them to their new gig. I was giving Riley crap about it, then when I saw BV get some of the Clemson staff, I realized it wasn't as controversial as I thought it was.

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                                                                #32
                                                                Lots of talent on campus, weak conference, savvy HC, same “resources” they used to land recruits all along. Their problem, if they have one, is that now the atmosphere around the program is like OU in 2021: natty or bust, nobody in conference has any right to challenge you on paper, and nothing to gain and everything to lose most weeks. It’s a tough tier to occupy when a few guys start underperforming. Culture can turn toxic in a hurry no matter who your coach is.

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                                                                  #33
                                                                  Damn! I knew I should’ve started this thread.

                                                                  Clemson is fucked. Elliot and Venables are both gone. The portal is one way for Dabo. Recruits are decomitting. AD is adios. And it’s all coming at the end of a lackluster year.

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                                                                    #34
                                                                    The Dabo/Clemson "dynasty" lasted about as long as most dynasties do. Saban is the clear exception to that history and fans comparing their team to that level of success are doomed to disappointment. Clemson produced some elite teams and 2 NCs in about 5 years and that ranks historically as a huge success. Stoops came close to getting 2 when the '03 squad fell a bit short and then had to rebuild in '05 and '06. His second peak was '07 and '08, but couldn't snatch that brass ring. We didn't get another elite squad until LRs '17 team and need to rebuild a bit again with the new staff. Switzer went through similar waves of peak and rebuild, while almost always putting out quality teams. Same with Osborn up at Nebraska. As other have stated, Miami, FSU, NU, USC and others had dynasty periods in their programs and have not shown the ability to reclaim it. I see no guarantees for Clemson given this year was a rebuild followed by the coaching exodus. Dabo has his work cut out for him assuming he stays.

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                                                                      #35

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                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Tobias 2.0 View Post
                                                                        The thing to me is that seemingly Dabo, at least publicly, isn't making any kind of rash hires. Granted, it's been 5 days since Brent left (and 1 since the OC left) but this sounds like two possibilities:

                                                                        1) Dabo already has people in mind for his open positions and will wait until after the bowls, and if he suffers the loss of some recruits so be it. Or 2) He's NFL bound and doesn't give a fuck what happens between now and then.
                                                                        I'm not sure being NFL bound, if he is, means that he doesn't care. Unless he has the deal signed and in hand from one of the teams, he could very well be sitting in the same chair he is now next year. It's in his interest to do the best job he can there. Even if he has the deal in hand for the NFL, he knows that his assistants are likely to get let go by the next guy and half his team will be in the portal, so the impact on the team is really beyond his control anyway.

                                                                        I think a HC leaving, either getting fired or on their own, is going to be a huge issue for teams going forward because of the portal.

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                                                                          #37
                                                                          The fighting Dabo will move to Alabama once Saban retires

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                                                                            #38
                                                                            Can we have Bates then?

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                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by FtwTxSooner View Post
                                                                              ACC is a shit conference now, so they don’t need to do much to win it.
                                                                              Neither did we… yet we managed to screw it up against Baylor and Okie Light.

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                                                                                #40
                                                                                They still have that recruit committed that runs a 10.3 100 m?

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                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Bitchfighter View Post
                                                                                  I'm in the minority, but I've always liked Dabo. Is he a phony? Almost certainly.

                                                                                  But the dude was a nobody, the Clemson program was ashes, and he built up something in less than a decade where he was dad-dicking Saban and Bama on national tv. Gotta respect that.
                                                                                  I respect what he has done, but I do not like him. His "awe shucks/wear my religion on my sleeve/rah-rah" schtick has wore thin and some of us old time Bama fans have long memories of 2000 when he was part of a staff that got us on probation and nearly destroyed our program. You will never convince me that he did not know what was going on in the Albert Means case and other recruiting violations at the time. He HAS built a program from scratch--and I give him credit for that. But he has done that with staff continuity and consistently recruiting at an elite level(mainly through two qbs, Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence)--both of which are taking a major hit right now. This is the first huge dose of adversity that he has had to face since taking over that program. Let's see how he handles it.
                                                                                  Last edited by OrangeBeachBum68; 12-13-2021, 07:50 PM.

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                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by BoomerSooner2578 View Post

                                                                                    I think 'Bama fans would be OK with not ruling College Football with an iron fist. In this era of parity (scholly limitations), it's RIDICULOUS what Saban has been able to pull off, because he's the GOAT. Hiring a coach that's "not as good as Saban" is inevitable. As far as I know, they want Dabo.

                                                                                    We hear the lunatics that call in to Finebaum, but that's not what your average 'Bama fan expects when Saban retires. They're good fans. I've got three 'Bama close friends (b/c Boulder= transplant city)
                                                                                    XXL TideFan
                                                                                    OrangeBeachBum68
                                                                                    soonergrad
                                                                                    will agree with this assessment, none of which I know personally.
                                                                                    Put me in the camp that does NOT think Bama will hire Dabo post Saban. Too many Bama fans have long memories of what happened in 2000 and he was part of that staff, and he has rubbed many Bama fans the wrong way with his comments and attitude over the last several years also. IF there ever was a chance that he may be Saban's successor before then, I think that ship has sailed.

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                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Put a gun to my head and I’d say yes. The biggest loss is BV, those two were a great duo.

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                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by OrangeBeachBum68 View Post

                                                                                        Put me in the camp that does NOT think Bama will hire Dabo post Saban. Too many Bama fans have long memories of what happened in 2000 and he was part of that staff, and he has rubbed many Bama fans the wrong way with his comments and attitude over the last several years also. IF there ever was a chance that he may be Saban's successor before then, I think that ship has sailed.
                                                                                        I agree with you.

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                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Maybe this is why so many people have left Clemson?

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                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by OU48A View Post
                                                                                            Maybe this is why so many people have left Clemson?
                                                                                            Awww, golly gee darn it and shucks…

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                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by OU48A View Post
                                                                                              Maybe this is why so many people have left Clemson?
                                                                                              You know who Tattoo Baker is, right? And what he does, right? And you don't really believe this do you?

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                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by Mazeppa View Post

                                                                                                You know who Tattoo Baker is, right? And what he does, right? And you don't really believe this do you?
                                                                                                Yea, he's that guy that hangs out with Don Lemon in the park, they sit on a bench and feed each other sushi with chopsticks while toe-tapping to Lady GAGA. He has a hard time talking, always sounds like he's got something caught in his throat.

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                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Mazeppa View Post

                                                                                                  You know who Tattoo Baker is, right? And what he does, right? And you don't really believe this do you?
                                                                                                  On that note:

                                                                                                  https://twitter.com/blinkinriley/status/

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                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Mazeppa View Post

                                                                                                    You know who Tattoo Baker is, right? And what he does, right? And you don't really believe this do you?
                                                                                                    Do you know what the word "maybe" means? ...maybe not!

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