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    Originally posted by Salt City Sooner View Post

    By that standard, you don’t replace Jared Goff with Matt Stafford, it just wouldn’t work out. Oh, wait…..
    Look at Stafford's completion % since like 2013. He's over 64% every year. And he's thrown 500-600 passes most years. Baker completed less than 500 his best year and still couldn't even touch 63%. I don't see any team making Baker throw 600 passes in a season anywhere he goes.

    Comment


      Originally posted by NickZepp84 View Post

      Look at Stafford's completion % since like 2013. He's over 64% every year. And he's thrown 500-600 passes most years. Baker completed less than 500 his best year and still couldn't even touch 63%. I don't see any team making Baker throw 600 passes in a season anywhere he goes.
      Perhaps not, but I don't see any team needing that kind of passing taking him on. I do wonder how much his development and progress have been impacted by coaching changes. It's hard for any qb to get better when the system is not continual from year to year.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Middle Aged Man View Post

        Perhaps not, but I don't see any team needing that kind of passing taking him on. I do wonder how much his development and progress have been impacted by coaching changes. It's hard for any qb to get better when the system is not continual from year to year.
        Stafford had the same problems in Detroit they went through 3 head coaches and probably changed the offense every other year. That's apart of the NFL when you have average to below average teams.

        Comment


          I simply hope he ends up in a good situation and one where he can fuck the NFL up...especially the Browns. Im sure it will never happen, but it would be nice if he could get picked up by the Bucs, sit and learn behind the GOAT for a year seeing first hand everything he needs to be uber successful, let Brady retire then take over a team with weapons and a great defense where they go on a winning bender like never seen before.

          For the record, I don't like the Bucs or Tom Brady. Simply respect him. And I want nothing more than the long term story of Baker to be one of success and a double gun salute to all the talking heads and NFL people who doubted him.

          Comment


            Originally posted by NickZepp84 View Post

            Look at Stafford's completion % since like 2013. He's over 64% every year. And he's thrown 500-600 passes most years. Baker completed less than 500 his best year and still couldn't even touch 63%. I don't see any team making Baker throw 600 passes in a season anywhere he goes.
            Perhaps you missed the part where I said BY THAT STANDARD. You were comparing individual players by wins/losses, which is ridiculous, period. There’s a reason football is called the ultimate TEAM game. Just own it and move on.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Orangejello Jones View Post
              I simply hope he ends up in a good situation and one where he can fuck the NFL up...especially the Browns. Im sure it will never happen, but it would be nice if he could get picked up by the Bucs, sit and learn behind the GOAT for a year seeing first hand everything he needs to be uber successful, let Brady retire then take over a team with weapons and a great defense where they go on a winning bender like never seen before.

              For the record, I don't like the Bucs or Tom Brady. Simply respect him. And I want nothing more than the long term story of Baker to be one of success and a double gun salute to all the talking heads and NFL people who doubted him.
              I think Detroit would be a good fit for him. They have a tough minded coach that I think Baker could learn from and respect. In my mind Mayfield is light years better than Goff.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Orangejello Jones View Post
                I simply hope he ends up in a good situation and one where he can fuck the NFL up...especially the Browns. Im sure it will never happen, but it would be nice if he could get picked up by the Bucs, sit and learn behind the GOAT for a year seeing first hand everything he needs to be uber successful, let Brady retire then take over a team with weapons and a great defense where they go on a winning bender like never seen before.

                For the record, I don't like the Bucs or Tom Brady. Simply respect him. And I want nothing more than the long term story of Baker to be one of success and a double gun salute to all the talking heads and NFL people who doubted him.
                I thought that had Sean Payton stayed coaching in New Orleans, Baker would have been a good option for them.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by NickZepp84 View Post

                  Look at Stafford's completion % since like 2013. He's over 64% every year. And he's thrown 500-600 passes most years. Baker completed less than 500 his best year and still couldn't even touch 63%. I don't see any team making Baker throw 600 passes in a season anywhere he goes.
                  About time you got on the Stafford wagon. Good for you!

                  Comment


                    He should humble himself sign with the Chiefs as a backup learn from Andy Reid keep quiet and prepare for next season.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Soonershocker1 View Post
                      He should humble himself sign with the Chiefs as a backup learn from Andy Reid keep quiet and prepare for next season.
                      Do you understand how contracts work? He is currently under contract with the Cleveland Browns. How is he supposed to sign with the Chiefs when Cleveland hasn’t released him and doesn’t plan to do so?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by soonerbms View Post

                        Do you understand how contracts work? He is currently under contract with the Cleveland Browns. How is he supposed to sign with the Chiefs when Cleveland hasn’t released him and doesn’t plan to do so?
                        I thought he meant if the browns release him, which is still a possibility. But maybe not.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by soonerbms View Post

                          Do you understand how contracts work? He is currently under contract with the Cleveland Browns. How is he supposed to sign with the Chiefs when Cleveland hasn’t released him and doesn’t plan to do so?
                          And if the Browns were to release him, why would he go to the Chiefs only to sit on the bench for a year?

                          If the Browns were to release him, he'll go somewhere that offers him a chance at starting.
                          Live Free or Die!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Soonershocker1 View Post
                            He should humble himself sign with the Chiefs as a backup learn from Andy Reid keep quiet and prepare for next season.
                            The problem with that is this is a contract year for him. He has to show out to get a new contract and get paid. Right now, last year is the last impression he has made, and he needs to undo that.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by EatLeadCommie View Post

                              The problem with that is this is a contract year for him. He has to show out to get a new contract and get paid. Right now, last year is the last impression he has made, and he needs to undo that.
                              Could he sign a short term deal at a lower rate, play well and renegotiate for a higher payday? The downside is that he doesn't play well and loses the opportunity for more money, I suppose.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Middle Aged Man View Post

                                Could he sign a short term deal at a lower rate, play well and renegotiate for a higher payday? The downside is that he doesn't play well and loses the opportunity for more money, I suppose.
                                I have little doubt he will sign for as little as possible to screw the Browns if they aren't successful in trading him. But he can't go to a team like the Chiefs and not play. He has to go somewhere where he will play. Even if he is filler for a season on a team that just drafted a QB.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by soonerbms View Post

                                  Do you understand how contracts work? He is currently under contract with the Cleveland Browns. How is he supposed to sign with the Chiefs when Cleveland hasn’t released him and doesn’t plan to do so?
                                  At some point Cleveland will release him. He is not wanted. He lost the locker room. Is it poor management? Yes. The Browns will eventually eat his contract. If the don't I think his career as an NFL starter may be over. Yes I understand how NFL contracts work.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by soonerbms View Post

                                    Do you understand how contracts work? He is currently under contract with the Cleveland Browns. How is he supposed to sign with the Chiefs when Cleveland hasn’t released him and doesn’t plan to do so?
                                    He could renegotiate his contract with Cleveland to make a trade possible. It would have to be a big cut to make it work.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Velo Sooner View Post

                                      He could renegotiate his contract with Cleveland to make a trade possible. It would have to be a big cut to make it work.
                                      Is there any incentive for him to do that other than wanting to be on the field playing somewhere? It seems like the risk in that is giving up guaranteed money to bet against himself that he will get on a team that lets him play, and surrounds him with players who help him look good. Coming off a bad shoulder and surgery, he doesn't know how that will work long term either, so I guess it somewhat what's worth more to him, the money or playing?

                                      Comment


                                        Why would they just release him? They still have to pay him, so I assume they will keep him no matter what unless someone offers them an acceptable trade. I'd think they would be open to paying at least half his salary to free up cash, but maybe other teams want them to pay more

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Middle Aged Man View Post

                                          Is there any incentive for him to do that other than wanting to be on the field playing somewhere? It seems like the risk in that is giving up guaranteed money to bet against himself that he will get on a team that lets him play, and surrounds him with players who help him look good. Coming off a bad shoulder and surgery, he doesn't know how that will work long term either, so I guess it somewhat what's worth more to him, the money or playing?
                                          Yes, I was referring to his desire to play and taking the risk and betting on himself. He has the personality type such that it wouldn't shock me if he went that direction, although it would surprise me.

                                          Comment


                                            I don't think they want him around. Maybe the keep him and wait for him to say something detrimental to the team say they can void his contract. I can see them doing that in the beginning but I don't see him a playing all season for the Browns.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Section31 View Post
                                              Why would they just release him? They still have to pay him, so I assume they will keep him no matter what unless someone offers them an acceptable trade. I'd think they would be open to paying at least half his salary to free up cash, but maybe other teams want them to pay more
                                              He does represent opportunity cost of displacing another useful player, but that doesn't really kick in until the required cut to 53 on the roster. The distraction factor begins much earlier when mandatory training camps arrive. But that is only a motivating factor for rational management which doesn't seem to apply here. Rats on a stick! I'm speculating again. Hard to resist deciphering this train wreck of an organization.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by Soonershocker1 View Post
                                                I don't think they want him around. Maybe the keep him and wait for him to say something detrimental to the team say they can void his contract. I can see them doing that in the beginning but I don't see him a playing all season for the Browns.
                                                He would have to do something really bad to be fired for cause and have it stand up in court. Players critique their teams all the time. I think it would have to be something that showed up on the police log. Something like, I don't know, maybe like Desaun Watson did?

                                                Comment


                                                  Originally posted by Velo Sooner View Post

                                                  He could renegotiate his contract with Cleveland to make a trade possible. It would have to be a big cut to make it work.
                                                  I doubt BM would let the Browns off the hook for his salary. Why do them any favors? Eventually, he will land with another team. The Browns are hoping some team gets QB desperate enough to take on most of his salary in a trade. But the rest of the league has it in for the Browns who blew salary scales to smithereens with the ridiculous monies being paid to Watson. In the meantime the Browns will have an uncomfortable locker room. In my opinion—At some point, the Browns will stop playing chicken with QB needy teams and cut their losses by waiving BM at which point some team will pay BM a fraction of his contract with the Browns with the Browns having to pay the balance, with BM and the league thereby sticking it to the Browns financially.

                                                  Comment


                                                    Originally posted by Velo Sooner View Post

                                                    He could renegotiate his contract with Cleveland to make a trade possible. It would have to be a big cut to make it work.
                                                    Yeah, he should definitely walk away from millions of dollars to go be the backup in KC.

                                                    Comment


                                                      BM is going to get paid unless the browns can weasel out of the contract, which is unlikely.

                                                      Go somewhere else, sign a 1 year minimum deal and have the browns eat 17 million or so.

                                                      IMO, BM will do the absolute minimum to maintain contract with browns and look to move on when cut.

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by soonerquest View Post

                                                        I doubt BM would let the Browns off the hook for his salary. Why do them any favors? Eventually, he will land with another team. The Browns are hoping some team gets QB desperate enough to take on most of his salary in a trade. But the rest of the league has it in for the Browns who blew salary scales to smithereens with the ridiculous monies being paid to Watson. In the meantime the Browns will have an uncomfortable locker room. In my opinion—At some point, the Browns will stop playing chicken with QB needy teams and cut their losses by waiving BM at which point some team will pay BM a fraction of his contract with the Browns with the Browns having to pay the balance, with BM and the league thereby sticking it to the Browns financially.
                                                        I see no chance he’s gonna eat much if anything of the $18.5MM guaranteed. He has nothing to gain except joining another team sooner…whatever that’s worth?

                                                        All three sides are holding their ground…even if they do that, BM gets fully paid for this year.

                                                        I’d sit on my ass for the year before I moved much in BM’s shoes. I know he probably doesn’t want to sit out and get rusty or lose market value…he wants to play and prove himself worthy of a contract somewhere. But this is all part of being NFL. It’s calculated…if by start of the season he doesn’t have a new team, then he should start thinking about a cut to move on to the next opportunity. Not until IMO.

                                                        Comment


                                                          Originally posted by Velo Sooner View Post

                                                          He could renegotiate his contract with Cleveland to make a trade possible. It would have to be a big cut to make it work.
                                                          Why? What does he gain from that? As the season starts and wears on, at some point yes…because when the entire NFL moves on, your next job is hard to find. But walking away from $18.5 MM is crazy….the fact that nobody has taken him for a 1 year deal says he might not get $18.5MM total opportunity going forward. I think he’s a solid NFL QB…and will have an opportunity somewhere, but there are no guarantees.

                                                          Comment


                                                            His best chance at becoming a starter again is to go be a back up somewhere that the head coach has a reputation for developing quarterbacks and have that coach sing his praises,. Example Nick Foles.

                                                            Comment


                                                              Originally posted by Velo Sooner View Post

                                                              Yes, I was referring to his desire to play and taking the risk and betting on himself. He has the personality type such that it wouldn't shock me if he went that direction, although it would surprise me.
                                                              Yea, part of me agrees with your personality assessment…very few people with more self confidence than BM.

                                                              Part of me sees BM as very spitefully and stubborn…his short history says doesn’t part ways on unfriendly terms very well. Something tells me BM is gonna enjoy making the Browns unhappy with his presence until they cut him…then he’ll make a Tshirt about it.

                                                              Comment


                                                                Originally posted by Me And My Butt View Post
                                                                Yea, part of me agrees with your personality assessment…very few people with more self confidence than BM.

                                                                Part of me sees BM as very spitefully and stubborn…his short history says doesn’t part ways on unfriendly terms very well. Something tells me BM is gonna enjoy making the Browns unhappy with his presence until they cut him…then he’ll make a Tshirt about it.
                                                                TRAITOR!

                                                                Comment


                                                                  Originally posted by soonerquest View Post

                                                                  I doubt BM would let the Browns off the hook for his salary. Why do them any favors? Eventually, he will land with another team. The Browns are hoping some team gets QB desperate enough to take on most of his salary in a trade. But the rest of the league has it in for the Browns who blew salary scales to smithereens with the ridiculous monies being paid to Watson. In the meantime the Browns will have an uncomfortable locker room. In my opinion—At some point, the Browns will stop playing chicken with QB needy teams and cut their losses by waiving BM at which point some team will pay BM a fraction of his contract with the Browns with the Browns having to pay the balance, with BM and the league thereby sticking it to the Browns financially.
                                                                  I understand why people think that the QB market has been completely reset with Watson, but it only is if other teams play that game. If they let agents and players know that they are not going to pay Watson level money or terms, regardless of who the QB is, then it isn't a problem. Watson doesn't have anything near Mahomes accomplishments. Whether that's all on him or where/who he played doesn't matter. Mahomes/Brady/Rodgers is the market IMO.

                                                                  When the next guy wants Watson kind of money, say nope, we're not Cleveland. Then let the Browns suck and spend the next 20 years paying off the idiocy that is the mortgage for their move.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by 5thWave View Post

                                                                    TRAITOR!
                                                                    Exactly.

                                                                    He has beef with Kingsbury and Patterson that he still lugs around in the NFL….I suspect he isn’t leaving Cleveland without burning a few bridges down.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by Me And My Butt View Post
                                                                      Yea, part of me agrees with your personality assessment…very few people with more self confidence than BM.

                                                                      Part of me sees BM as very spitefully and stubborn…his short history says doesn’t part ways on unfriendly terms very well. Something tells me BM is gonna enjoy making the Browns unhappy with his presence until they cut him…then he’ll make a Tshirt about it.
                                                                      I agree that is by far the most likely scenario. The only thing I could see that might get Baker involved is if he felt his chances of competing at another team was slipping away as time goes on. I could see another team suddenly being interested if a QB gets hurt in camp or a team realizes their rookie they just drafted is no where close to being ready this season.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        Originally posted by Soonershocker1 View Post
                                                                        His best chance at becoming a starter again is to go be a back up somewhere that the head coach has a reputation for developing quarterbacks and have that coach sing his praises,. Example Nick Foles.
                                                                        He can just go somewhere else. He has to be released first or wait until his contract expires.

                                                                        Originally posted by Middle Aged Man View Post

                                                                        I understand why people think that the QB market has been completely reset with Watson, but it only is if other teams play that game. If they let agents and players know that they are not going to pay Watson level money or terms, regardless of who the QB is, then it isn't a problem. Watson doesn't have anything near Mahomes accomplishments. Whether that's all on him or where/who he played doesn't matter. Mahomes/Brady/Rodgers is the market IMO.

                                                                        When the next guy wants Watson kind of money, say nope, we're not Cleveland. Then let the Browns suck and spend the next 20 years paying off the idiocy that is the mortgage for their move.
                                                                        I'm not sure it is as easy as saying "nope" under the collective bargaining rules.
                                                                        Live Free or Die!

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          I think Cleveland was initially hoping to unload his contact AND pick up some draft capital. When that failed they were hoping to get rid of his contract OR get draft capital. When that failed, I think Cleveland decided to keep him until some team loses its starter to injury or becomes desperate enough for some reason to pick up part of his salary or offer some kind of compensation. I don’t think they are going to force him into practice or meetings. There is no scenario where they can cut him “for cause.” They will treat him like Houston did Watson last year when he did not play a game. Baker WILL play for someone this year. Just not Cleveland.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            I don't think most NFL GM's few Baker as that guy any more regardless of the price. That's why I think he needs to go somewhere as a backup with a coach that has quarterback cred and reset himself.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              Originally posted by Stinger_1066 View Post


                                                                              I'm not sure it is as easy as saying "nope" under the collective bargaining rules.
                                                                              Maybe not, which would be the owner's own fault for agreeing to something in the deal which lets one rogue dumba$$ team set the market for the rest of them.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Originally posted by Soonershocker1 View Post
                                                                                I don't think most NFL GM's few Baker as that guy any more.
                                                                                and really nobody fews anymore. people used to few all the time, but when fewing became too popular in the late '90s, folks slowly started shying away from fewing, and now, hardly anyone fews except only a few.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Originally posted by blackfrancois View Post

                                                                                  and really nobody fews anymore. people used to few all the time, but when fewing became too popular in the late '90s, folks slowly started shying away from fewing, and now, hardly anyone fews except only a few.
                                                                                  My apologies. view

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Originally posted by blackfrancois View Post

                                                                                    and really nobody fews anymore. people used to few all the time, but when fewing became too popular in the late '90s, folks slowly started shying away from fewing, and now, hardly anyone fews except only a few.
                                                                                    Are you suggesting that fews are far between?

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Originally posted by blackfrancois View Post

                                                                                      and really nobody fews anymore. people used to few all the time, but when fewing became too popular in the late '90s, folks slowly started shying away from fewing, and now, hardly anyone fews except only a few.
                                                                                      The simple fact that almost no one fews anymore makes me…fewious.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by blackfrancois View Post

                                                                                        and really nobody fews anymore. people used to few all the time, but when fewing became too popular in the late '90s, folks slowly started shying away from fewing, and now, hardly anyone fews except only a few.
                                                                                        Fews are coming back, like mulletts. Won't be long until you are nothing if you don't few.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          Originally posted by Soonershocker1 View Post
                                                                                          I don't think most NFL GM's view Baker as that guy any more regardless of the price.
                                                                                          You could be right, but it doesn't make sense. He's one injury-shortened season away from being a top 10 QB. You'd think many GMs, especially those in the bottom half of the league, would be interested.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            Originally posted by Trip View Post

                                                                                            You could be right, but it doesn't make sense. He's one injury-shortened season away from being a top 10 QB. You'd think many GMs, especially those in the bottom half of the league, would be interested.
                                                                                            I agree, I wonder if it’s locker room issues that’s keeping teams away. Hard to argue what he did for Cleveland. They were flat out awful before he arrived.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              Since when does the NFL guarantee contracts? Just a few years ago a team could cut a player at any time for any reason and they ddin't have to pay any remaining salary on the contract. When did that change?

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                Originally posted by platon20 View Post
                                                                                                Since when does the NFL guarantee contracts? Just a few years ago a team could cut a player at any time for any reason and they ddin't have to pay any remaining salary on the contract. When did that change?
                                                                                                Huh? That's not an "NFL thing". A contract is a contract. No one gets to just decide to not pay ever.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  Originally posted by platon20 View Post
                                                                                                  Since when does the NFL guarantee contracts? Just a few years ago a team could cut a player at any time for any reason and they ddin't have to pay any remaining salary on the contract. When did that change?
                                                                                                  No, that’s never been the case. They can cut them but they pay the contract. They can’t just break the contract.

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    Originally posted by Section31 View Post

                                                                                                    Huh? That's not an "NFL thing". A contract is a contract. No one gets to just decide to not pay ever.
                                                                                                    Most NFL contracts are only guaranteed for a football injury. Many have clauses to allow a team to cut a player due to a decrease in skill or salary cap reasons. So yeah, its all in the contract allowing teams to cut players and not pay any future money not earned yet.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      Originally posted by FtwTxSooner View Post

                                                                                                      Most NFL contracts are only guaranteed for a football injury. Many have clauses to allow a team to cut a player due to a decrease in skill or salary cap reasons. So yeah, its all in the contract allowing teams to cut players and not pay any future money not earned yet.
                                                                                                      Point is, the Browns picked up the option last year and it's fully guaranteed...again, a guaranteed contract is a legal agreement, not an NFL thing

                                                                                                      Comment

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